To think entry requirements to be a teacher should be higher

[totteringlump]

AIBU to think too many teachers (obviously not all) don’t have particularly good qualifications themselves and so struggle to teach the syllabus to the class? People are able to pass but not excel and these teachers often struggle to advise students about gaining entry to Oxbridge and other places plus about high paid careers.

If students don’t have this advice at home they cannot know.

Since we have such a surplus we should really only take the very best graduates. Oh, no surplus? Well, in that case..

But teaching is a skill, and I’d much rather an excellent teacher who is academically limited, than a genius who can’t teach.

You cannot be an excellent teacher if you don’t know your subject.

I agree OP. Ds3 has been in Y5 for 2 terms now and not once has his teacher advised him about his Oxbridge application, UCAS in general or how his abilities at spelling will lead to a lucrative career. It's ludicrous!

That's why training as a teacher is important 665, rather than just putting people with degrees in front of classes.

Isn't the flaw in this argument that people who learned something easily will not be good teachers of it, because they won't understand why someone else finds it difficult.

Bullshit. This always gets posted on this sort of thread. Don’t you think bright graduates might be able to think about where the misconceptions and difficulties might arise and have the ability to think of strategies to help the children?

It's almost irrelevant in a way. Getting on to a teacher training course is miles apart from being qualified teacher status.

You are scrutinised constantly, observed religiously and all aspects of your work are looked at; your ability to mark, to provide feedback, teaching practice, classroom management, behaviour expectations etc..
If you cannot demonstrate the required teacher standards then you will not pass.

I do however believe 'instructors' should not be allowed and that's coming from a person who has been one. (Not a qualified teacher but has knowledge/experience of the subject)

Also i have a degree in History, doesn't mean i know everything there is to know. I just need to know the syllabus well enough to teach it and challenge the students to achieve higher...

Teachers don’t have to have a “particularly good” qualification to be able to teach a class.

Do you think your child is gifted and being ‘let down’ ? Because he’s probably not.

The ability to engage a class is the important skill.
To convey the curriculum in an interesting way.
To motivate students and give them detailed feedback.
That is what is important.

I have a BA, an MA and a PGCE. Am I allowed to carry on teaching?

Also, your point about advising on Oxbridge doesn't make sense. Am I only able to advise if I personally went to Oxbridge? So does that mean I can only advise on the 3 universities I attended and no others?

What a strange point of view to have!

I suspect this is often because schools are short of money so teachers are teaching outside their areas of knowledge.

^^This

I was once directed to teach German to Year 7 for half a year - I don't speak a word!

I'd start with making it a more attractive profession so good candidates actually wanted to apply (and stay for more than a couple of years).

I don't really understand why anyone would want to be a teacher if they have better options. I'm sure there are some really excellent teachers out there who are so dedicated that they don't mind the long hours/low pay/low respect and I do really admire them...I also think they're bonkers.

Thread isn’t about you though chicken

I think they should have a grasp of spelling and grammar. You know what they say? If you Can, do, If you Can't, teach.

The issue is not pay primarily. The reasons for the teacher recruitment crisis are much broader than that and have been discussed at length on here and elsewhere.

The worst teacher I ever saw, as an advisor, had a PhD and a brilliant mind. What he didn’t have, was the ability to impart his knowledge to a group of young people. He couldn’t enthuse them, manage their behaviour or get them to do as he asked.

You don’t need to have a PhD to be able to teach, but you do need to have intelligence, the ability to communicate, to manage behaviour, to think on your feet and a whole host of other skills.

Quite ironic that you you could mangle a sentence like that immediately after saying teachers should have a grasp of spelling and grammar whatshallido.

Does anyone actually think teachers are the ones who “Can’t” [sic] any more?

Nonsense. There are many problems in the teaching profession but that's hardly one of them. I've been a teacher for over 20 years. I'd say that there has been little correlation between the impressiveness of my colleagues' degrees and their abilities as teachers. In some cases, there is a negative correlation.

I have a 2:1 from Oxford. That's not what makes me a good teacher. My study of mediaeval French literature and German poets doesn't come in very handy. You don't need a 1st or even a 2:1. You need to know your syllabus inside out and be good at managing and engaging the kids.

It's a problem finding enough teachers full stop. Insist on higher qualifications and you'll lose lots of great potential teachers.

I disagree Purple Daisies. There are all kinds of intelligence and not all of them include the ability to teach.

There was a move towards 2:1s being the minimum accepted to get into teaching a few years ago but the truth is we can not attract enough people into the profession. We are not training enough teachers for the childten currently coming through schools and that does not take into account that more teachers are retiring early and more are leaving quickly or never actually teaching. Half of the teachers who qualify are not teaching 3 years later. In many subjects in secondary school it is almost impossible to find teachers.
We advertised a Physics job 7 times over 5 years and were able to appoint a Physics teacher who had a Physics degree only twice.Both turned out to be hopeless. We had to use Science staff who were Chemists and Biologists who had little idea about GCSE nad A level Physics.
DH - Deputy Head on a large- secondary school was asked by a neighbouring Head last week if he knew of any 'bretahing Maths teachers'. The school needs 4 for September and after 2 adverts have managed to appoint 1. They have no Head of Maths or Second in Maths.
It is dire. In DH's school they have advertised an Assistant Head post ntaionally twice and not been bale to appont because of the quality of candidates. The person whose job it is now is leaving to start a business because she is so fed up with teaching.
Maths, Physics, English, History, Computer Science and MFL are all shortage subjects. If every u dergraduate studying for an MFL degree currently went on to become an MFL teacher we would still have a shortage- that's how bad it is.

There’s definitely an attitude that non academics make better teachers, because they can get “down with the kids.”

In a ‘perfect’ world teachers would be qualified to at least Masters level in the subjects they are expected to teach (at secondary). They should also be excellent classroom practitioners and continually demonstrate only the highest standards of teaching.

This would only be realistic if supply of teachers vastly outstripped demand. The only way to achieve that would be if teaching was a highly attractive profession.

Ha ha ha ha ha

You can be a highly skilled Economist with an amazing grasp of the subject and able to teach to the highest standards, but may be a mediocre Geography teacher. Nevertheless, you could end up timetabled for Geography....

Increasing ‘entry requirements’ for the profession is not going to change that scenario.

you are confused I think

there is an issue of teacher TRYING to be careers advisers because this Gov got rid of Stat careers provision and academies will not pay for professional careers advisers - so some poor sod gets the joy of doing it for a couple of grand extra

But careers advisers have postgrad / masters level qualifications

Teachers are required to have a degree - often at a 2:1 though so they are hardly thick!

Last time I checked you needed at 2:1.

However, teaching is a vocation which with the people skills you have OP, would be an epic FAIL.

Sorry, lots of typos. Am wrestling with a tired one year old.

There are all kinds of intelligence and not all of them include the ability to teach.

If you read my post, you’ll see I said nothing of the sort. People always post that very clever people can’t understand why people find subjects difficult. Obviously there are some that can’t explain concepts well, but plenty can.

Point is, if a sixteen year old choosing A levels doesn’t have advice from his family, where can he get it from?

Many do A level Law thinking that’s the ideal route to a Law degree, for instance.