To think entry requirements to be a teacher should be higher

[totteringlump]

AIBU to think too many teachers (obviously not all) don’t have particularly good qualifications themselves and so struggle to teach the syllabus to the class? People are able to pass but not excel and these teachers often struggle to advise students about gaining entry to Oxbridge and other places plus about high paid careers.

If students don’t have this advice at home they cannot know.

The country is in dire need of more teachers so what are you suggesting beyond the degree and postgraduate we already have exactly?

So by your logic , parents who are unable to advise their offspring about highly paid careers and how to get into Oxbridge , are also obviously under qualified to be parents - because they are more career advisors than your average teacher , I’d have thought . Any parent that invested in their child should surely be doing their research into the matter throughly . They have one child to concern themselves with . The teacher has 30 . In every class they teach .

FreckledLeopard that cannot possibly be right, unless not in the UK. Otherwise she’s a HLTA or cover supervisor.

YANBU to think that a lot v of teachers are hopeless but there is already a shortage. If better qualified people wanted to apply they would be the ones getting the jobs. What is better? S bad teacher or no teacher?

My now retired mum was a primary school teacher for 40 years.

In the years prior to her retirement, she did despair about the grammar and spelling of the young teachers coming through. The “I done” and “I seen” used to drive her bonkers. That being said, she was critical of how the English language is taught to native speakers. She felt grammar had been neglected.

I think because of the low value placed on many subjects, particularly the arts and humanities, they are often taught by non specialists. Sometimes that works fine, usually if the teacher puts in a lot of extra work, sometimes it doesn't work at all.

Similarly as has been said above, maths, physics and chemistry in particular have suffered from recruitment problems even before the recent governments decided teachers weren't professionals etc so yes, teaching is often poorer than in other subjects where they have less trouble filling posts.

And in independent schools some choose to employ unqualified teachers as they are cheaper, using phrases like 'graduate instructor'.

However as other people have said, teachers are not careers advisers. Thats a separate profession, and another one that recent governments have trashed.

"My cousin is a primary school teacher. She has no degree "

Impossible. You need a degree to be an "unqualified teacher" who earns very little in actuality (some academies do hire them). She's most likely a Cover Supervisor - this is a role that was created to save money on hiring supply teachers and specifically involves no teaching whatsoever, just babysitting classes.

To be a qualified teacher (as in on the main teacher payscale and actually considered a teacher really) you have to have an initial degree, usually a 2:1 (although PGCE courses do accept people with 2:2s if they have additional merits), and a completed PGCE or GTP qualification that awards QTS (this involves Masters-level study and comes in at a third of an MA qualification, hence the Post-graduate Certificate in Education).

That's the minimum - and there is no shortage in Primary schools, unlike Secondary, so the idea that a teacher would be hired with no degree at all can not honestly be true. I personally don't even know any cover supervisors without degrees (although I am aware that they exist, having spoken to friends at other schools etc).

If anything I think teaching qualifications need to be expanded to consider people with just professional qualifications. Some professional certifications such as ACA / CIMA /ACCA / most IT programming certifications produce more numerate professionals than degree courses. And many experienced professionals might be willing to consider teaching as a second or retirement profession. Students might respect them more too & might get taught employable skills as a result. It’s such a shame that, that is currently not an option.

I thought this was already happening - at least in part - is it not?

I don't know that students would/do respect them more though.

Bloke on my course at uni work got a third is now Head of Science at a secondary school. I imagine he's a great teacher, he's just the right mix of nerdy and cool. However he spent 2/3 of his course copying my notes but he's enthusiastic about teaching and fuck knows you need to be to stick at it.

No one wants to be a teacher anymore and you can't blame them.

If teaching were better paid and respected you could attract better candidates and have higher entrance requirements. However...it is poorly paid, poorly respected and being mucked around with by every fucker going. So unless you have a real drive to teach why would you go into teaching when your quals would get you access to far more lucrative careers?

Also worth noting that you can have awesome subject knowledge and be a rubbish teacher.

I have a 2:1 from a top university, a Master’s Degree and a PGCE and am a published writer.
That enough?
However I tutor pupils who have been taught incorrect information in my specialist area. I suspect this is often because schools are short of money so teachers are teaching outside their areas of knowledge.

I went to Oxford. I went into teaching, and frankly really wasn’t very good, so I left.

It’s probably true that I could have done a good job advising on Oxbridge entry.

But teaching is a skill, and I’d much rather an excellent teacher who is academically limited, than a genius who can’t teach.

I think you have a point, I'm less sure about primary level where im not sure an A at A level history is neexed to teach the curriculumn, but I was taught German by a teacher who was learning German at the same time and i thonk thats a bit rubbish. I agree that we are struggling to recruit teachers but I think making the job better is the way to go, rather than lowering standards.

I teach A level English and have a D in the subject at A level myself. Because I wasn’t a very hard worker then and I didn’t like the texts I chose. I was also 17 and didn’t have the drive I have now.

Now I’m 36, have been teaching ten years and am very confident in my
subject knowledge. I don’t think anyone would be upset about me teaching their children because of that either. I know what I’m doing.

Careers advice is not part of my job but I know the people who can help and direct them there.

Yeah but that’s not really what I’m saying Mrskeats

I’m saying that the 2:1 is a minimum for many other graduate professions. How can we train the best if the best aren’t teaching?

How do you attract the best? Start there.

Pay, primarily.

@Fruityb
I get what you mean, but is that your highest qualification in an Englishy subject or did you go on to get a degree something relevant.

But teaching is a skill, and I’d much rather an excellent teacher who is academically limited, than a genius who can’t teach.

Totally agree with this. The best teachers are not necessarily the academic hot shots.

You're talking about a careers adviser not a teacher. Teachers should be experts in their subject and should stay well clear of giving careers advice

Excellent teachers are not academically limited. They might have the gloss of good teaching, but that's not the same.

Isn't the flaw in this argument that people who learned something easily will not be good teachers of it, because they won't understand why someone else finds it difficult.

A genuis who can't teach is no use though, of course.