Childless women - who will look after you in old age?

[boatyface2]

If you are childless (by choice or not) or even if you have children, what's your view on this?

I've seen several threads from mums hating it and saying they wish they didn't have kids. Surely it's all good when you're young but who will look after you when you're old?

I wonder if that is why mums complain how much they hate it, yet go on to have a second and third child? And if old age wasn't a concern, why did you have children if you don't enjoy it?

I knew a woman who had five daughters. As soon as she developed dementia and was unable to live independently, they stuck her in a care home

Maybe they had jobs, children to care for or their own health issues. Not everyone is in a position to provide 24/7 care, even if they wanted to. When DH's Grandmother had dementia we "stuck her in a care home", as you so delightfully put it, because we had no choice. She needed constant supervision and we both work full time. We couldn't afford for us to give up work to take care of her. She also became violent, would shout and swear, theaten to harm herself etc and we couldn't expose our small child to that. The whole situation was awful for DH as she practically raised him and honestly the judgement really doesn't help.

@LondonJax I'm so sorry to hear about your Mum. I have seen things progressively get worse with the elderly just like how you describe. And you have done the best thing for your Mum.

You are still there for her as you are concerned with her well being.
Not everyone can deal with the demands for taking care of an elderly as they do need specialised care. But you are there for her- I think that's all I'd need.

I object to you as a childless woman telling me as a mother how I think.

Sure.

boaty - the friends you meet absolutely don't need to be childless too! Life will take all sorts of turns for you and your friends along the way in terms of their marriages, families, careers, health etc. - no amount of planning and anticipating can change that. The only thing you need to do is financially plan for a time when you might need care and keep in touch with people from time to time/gently expand your social interaction. Well that's my plan anyway and would be whether I'd managed to carry a baby to term or not!

As a childless single woman I do think about this, especially as I've spent a fair bit of time over the last 10 years supporting seriously ill parents.

Apparently it cost 150k to bring up a child to adulthood- probably more if you count University. Multiply that by 2 or 3 and if you don't have children, that's some swanky care home you're looking at! no it isn't! Residential care home fees round here are 600 a week. Nursing are closer to a grand a week. That's 31-52k a year.

That's what I hope for, a circle of childless friends who all look out for each other. I'm an introvert as well so also struggle to make friends, so lets hope my existing ones stay childless!

Are you serious?
If you get old and infirm, perhaps doubly incontinent you want friends to give up thier lives to be in and out your house all day taking you to the toilet, changing your bedding or pads, using hoists when you fall or need to go from bed to chair, making you meals wondering if you are eating/drinking enough, doing your housework, washing etc?

Or if you get dementia of one kind or another and you are leaving the gas cooker on, boiling pans dry, leaving taps on flooding the place or going walkabout in your pjs at 3am, becoming violent/aggressive because you dont recognise anyone in your present because you are living in your past, you expect friends to deal with this?
You arent thier responsibility just because they dont have children!

Give your head a wobble.

I would imagine that she hopes for a circle of friends (with it without children) who would help to organise appropriate care for her, not actually do the intimate care themselves. Just as I would want my family or friends to help organise professional care rather than do it themselves.

Popping in to check on elderly neighbours at times, getting them shopping etc is very different to caring full time for a person incapacitated for one reason or another.
General help that anyone who has the time and the ability to be able to help/care is obviously normal for relatives or friends. What op is suggesting goes way beyond that.

For the two years my mum was in a home, we made sure she had at least one visitor a day (sometimes two): my dad (her dh), her friends (who continued to visit her to the end), me. I was there at least once a week - usually more often. The only one who didn't visit regularly was my db, because he found it too upsetting.

She never lost her memories - but she lost her essence Over the period she lost her ability to care, talk, walk.....she no longer wanted to read (former English teacher) or even get enjoyment from music (had loved music and sung in a choir). She would fall and break an arm or her jaw. She was existing, not living. The dementia was quite literally eating away at the part of her that cared about anything.

What good would it have done for dad (they had been the loves of each other's lives) to watch over her 24 hours a day (and even that wouldn't have been enough as she had no sense of what she could do, so might have got up and fallen while my dad was in the loo)? My brother and I were having testing times too at the time. He lived closer but had two very young children and was self-employed. I lived on the other side of the city and although I was going across regularly to help my dad, it wasn't enough

Neither Dad (who adored her) nor I (who still misses her, 11 years after her accident and 6 years after she died) have any guilt about putting get into a home where she could get proper care (and it was indeed a very caring home - a number of the carers and the sister in charge of the unit came to her funeral).

Dad has already stated he doesn't want us to put our lives on hold to care for him. Fortunately he still a hark and hearty 81 year old - although that could change. Ds knows we have the same approach. It doesn't mean we don't love and care for each other.

I really don’t think the OP is suggesting that her friends become the full time carers. But you can hope for people who care enough to organise an assessment, help source an appropriate care home placement (or care at home) and then visit you. That’s the most I’d expect from anyone, whether they were my children or not.

*Hey childless women

Youre gonna die alone, sad and lonely.

Cheers

OP

Also- if you do have kids and it's hard work, suck it up because they will send you the occasional text when you're 90. If they don't then why did you have kids - how stupid of you to do something you find hard that won't even pay off in 50 years

@prettybird You definitely should not feel guilty. You ensured that your mum had appropriate care. That is absolutely the right thing to do. I suspect anyone who would get judgemental about it has no real understanding of what it means to care for someone with dementia.

One of my mum’s cousins had a significant learning disability, plus some physical impairments. When my great aunt died he initially went to live with his brother and his wife. They are amazing, caring people (they provide respite foster care to children with complex SN) but what they decided to do was to ensure that Steve (not his real name) would always have adequate care. So they organised a social services assessment and he was placed in a flat shared with another man with similar needs. They have 24 hour care and supervision, and are always busy doing things out and about. His family visit him regularly and often take him out. As does my mother.

They did this, not because they didn’t want him, but because they love him and wanted to do the best for him. They wanted him to have the right kind of care no matter what happened, because something might happen to them and there might not be a proper plan. Also they wanted him to be able to build more of his own life, and he has (with significant support). It has definitely been the best thing for him. His brother died last year, and it absolutely helped everyone to know that Steve would always be taken care of.

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

I had my kids so they can go and live full lives not have to look after me or their dad and wipe our arses.

I’ll be going to Dignitas or taking care of it myself. I don’t want to live if I need round the clock care or don’t even recognise my children.
They’ll also get their inheritance not spent it all in looking after me in a care home.

UnimaginativeUsername I have some amazing friends who have stepped up to help my family when needed- I have some who haven't at all. Mumsnet is full of people who say they haven't got friends, are lonely, focus mainly on their families. Where are all these friends who can do caring tasks for an hour or two a day? That's what it takes to see if someone has a meal, get a bit of shopping, check they haven't fallen, and clean a bit. If we all think that society is going to fund this type of low-level care, then we are sorely mistaken.

I don't think having children is the answer to elder care, but it would be foolish to just pretend that there isn't a crisis, that there is plenty of care and carers to go around, and the state will just step up/it's easy for your friends to sell your house and put you in a care home or act as if they are family.

The thread about people not having 'villages' shows that lots of people don't have the time/energy/their own problems and issues to establish 'the village' to care for them, so if you don't have a village and you don't have family, it could get tricky.

My experience from working in a care home is there are many cases where 'women' with children are not looked after at all and barely seen throughout the year. It's not the done thing anymore; as long as said children don't complain about costs etc. That's their choice. So having no kids is less hassle right?

And- women are much more likely to live in poverty in old age than men, especially if they are divorced/separated, widowed, single and so on. This is just a matter of statistics, so the OP isn't being crazy in trying to think it through, even if having children isn't an obvious/always the answer.

Is this a fucking joke?

I’m childfree by choice, and 52, I wouldn’t expect anyone to look after me, ever

My brother and l lived near my mum. We both pooped round, took her to appointments, dealt with doctors, shopping, sending meals round. She saw one if us st least every 2 days. It never occurred to either of us to do otherwise.

She always said she didn’t want either of us looking after her, or being a burden to us. But when she got really old, she was terrified of being put in a home. If my brother and l hadn’t been around she would have had to go into a care home.

My ds 24 was talking about this the other day. He said how he still missed his grandma, and how me and my brother looked after her. And he would probably do the same for me. At no point have l ever told him thus, or expected it ever, he just said

Firstly, I’m not child less , I’m child free . Big difference. I’m not lacking anything, I have chosen a life that is free from something.

As for who will look after me in my old age, if I’m fortunate enough to get to that stage, I imagine it will be the same care home employees who look after people who do have children.

He just said it!!!

Childfree women will probably be in a much better financial position in their old age than those of us with kids! I think they'll do just fine really...

With the money I've saved by not having children I can pay for my own care. I do have a niece but she is only 8 years old at the moment and hopefully she will continue to visit but I certainly won't be expecting her to look after me.

What about those people with children who have moved to other parts of the world and made their own life or people who no longer have contact with their children because of family rifts?

You sound crackers OP

I knew a woman that had 3dc - she eventually had to move to a care home and the dc visited probably twice a year and spent no more than half an hour each time. She'd given up work and raised them throughout their lives and made sacrifices to give them the best opportunities in life. She became incredibly bitter that after all her sacrifices all they could manage in her elderly years is a bi-annual visit for 30mins. She said she would rather have not had them if she'd known she'd be 'packed off' without a so much as a backwards glance from them.

Of I'm still about my money will. I'm not child free but the answer is the same...