to think that Scouting should be one group now?

[Flatpackjackie]

As girls are allowed in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts, why aren't boys allowed in Rainbows, Brownies and Guides?

Or better still, just have one group for Beavers/Rainbows ages, one for Cubs/Brownies, etc?

Seems outdated and daft to separate by sex, especially as the Scouting groups include girls anyway.

(Not a TAT, not about trans issues at all.)

Great I'm glad for you,my boys didn't and neither did several of their friends. They are kids and just want to go where they feel comfortable and enjoy. They didn't feel comfortable and didn't enjoy it. Saying just click your fingers and change is being a tad disingenuous,ditto sending Hoards of girls to scouts. Not as easy as that as I'm sure you're well aware.

Dd has mentioned wanting boys at Guides and her friends are pretty like her,enjoy the company of boys like her brother etc

Why don’t they all join Scouts then. If it’s a tiny pack, there should be space. Then they can have the mixed activities they want, while leaving the Guides as a girl only space.

And I'm not saying all boys are the same you are. Small numbers tend to go to Scouts that is not the entire boy population. Unfortunately with boys boys who dare to be different come in smaller numbers and it is frowned upon to be just that. Plenty on this thread have indicated the type of behaviour you often see at scout groups,behaviour girls apparently need protecting from.

They didn't want to due to the same reasons many of the boys don't,it's very alpha male. Wouldn't sort the boys who want to spend time with girls anyway.

So am I understanding this? Your boys did not enjoy Scouts because of the Alpha boys behaviour? So you want them to be able to join Guides-leaving the alpha male behaviour unaltered? And although there is a mixed group available and your girls want a mixed group, you don't want your girls to join it. You want Guides to let them in. Right.

If your boys have been driven out of Scouts by poor behaviour your beef is really with the leader of the Scout troop. What happened when you talked to him or her about it?

He's pretty alpha male as is his son. We no intention of embarrassing our son further and highlighting his differences.

My son prefers Guides,the kids who attend there and the activities. Do you have a problem with that?

So you’re part of the problem then. If toxic masculinity is not challenged it just carries on. It is not girl’s responsibility to sort it.

And as for ordering Guides over there to keep my son and others like him happy.

“My son prefers Guides,the kids who attend there and the activities. Do you have a problem with that?”

Yes. Because guides is, for excellent reasons, a girl only organization.

Having taught in mixed and single sex schools, I think it's great that there are spaces where girls can just be girls without worrying about what boys think

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I have challenged toxic behaviour but not in this situation as it would have been detrimental for my son. The fact is he didn't want to go to scouts anyway. He didn't like the leader,boys or activities. The behaviour wasn't the sole reason. The fact is he wanted to go to Guides and would have fitted there far better. There are plenty of other boys like him but they're just brushed under the carpet.

They didn't want to due to the same reasons many of the boys don't,it's very alpha male

It really varies from troop to troop. Our cub pack has only one girl at the moment, with 30 boys. It’s loud, noisy, a bit boisterous, but fun, and we have quieter boys who can sometimes find it a bit much, but we vary the games and activities so there is something for everyone.

Our scout troop has 30 scouts, with over half of them being girls. There is a huge mix of types of kids, loud, quiet, adventurous, timid, gay, straight, trans. But they have great leaders, a mixture of genders and ages, and the scout troop is thriving to the point of needing to open a second troop once they can find more leaders.

Not all scout troops are predominantly alpha male. If your local one was, but was tiny, surely an influx of your DD and her friends would change the dynamic of the troop, and it would become less alpha male. Which is what you say all your DCs want .

In your opinion. I think the reasons are anything but excellent,they're misguided,outdated and sexist.

He wanted to go to Guides not Scouts,just didn't like anything about it. Nothing at all. He suited Guides far better.

I think female spaces are important for girls - dd was a guide, and she told me once that it was the only place that, as a teenager, she didn't feel fat and ugly . She had two brothers, went to a co-ed school and had many (it seemed at the time) friends of both sexes. And yet, looking back, she tells me guides was the only place she felt entirely comfortable in her body.

She could prance about in her pyjamas singing silly songs without fear of some fucker taking photos or writing her name and calling her a slut on the back of a toilet door the next day.

if people want boy only spaces, that's fine, they can have them. But leave girls alone.

I have children of both sexes and they attend respectively beavers and guides/brownies. The way these are run and the activities they do are different from each other and suit certain types. The little girls who go to beavers are happy to muck in with the boisterous atmosphere, no boys choose to go to brownies although they also do plenty of active things. My son would probably enjoy brownies but he is very self consciously one of the lads at the moment so he must be at beavers.
My oldest daughter was at a mixed school and very unhappy due to the behaviour of some of the boys. At her behest and with a heavy heart we moved her to a single sex school where they have done wonderful things in encouraging her and developing self confidence.
Children are not one homogeneous blob, they are self identifying like mad from a young age and whilst some relish a mixed environment others do not. No one benefits from undiversifying children's clubs in the name of equality.

So all boys are fuckers who take pictures of girls in their nightwear at any opportunity.and graffiti doors. Seriously. Girls are never fuckers,never take pics of their friends or graffiti?

In your opinion. I think the reasons are anything but excellent,they're misguided,outdated and sexist

Then why , if you feel so strongly about it, do you send your DD there?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/14/gender-segregation-state-schools-disaster-damage-children

Think I already told you,she likes catching up with old primary friends.

Not in dd's experience, tealights. You may choose to disbelieve her, but I don't.

Guiding was a safe space for her - as it is for many girls who are struggling with their appearance, their sexuality, their place in society, their religion, their bodies, the female biology and the challenges that brings throughout puberty. It's a place where they are encouraged to speak up - unlike many schools, where they are encouraged to keep their heads down and not draw trouble on themselves.

You are saying NABALT - that's irrelevant. It doesn't have to be all.

You said downthead that there shouldn't be biys and girls activities-but Guides have activities that appeal to your son more? What sort of things?
And what about all the girls whose parents would not allow them to go to Guides if it was mixed? You think that your son's desire to be a guide is more important than them? Disclaimer. I think those girls parents are wrong. But I also think that denying them the opportunity of guiding is not going to make things any better.

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/need-new-role-models-boys-dare-different/

I thought this article was interesting. It's on a different subject but I like the point he makes re how if we want boys to be better we have to show them better. Out of school activities are so important,it's where kids relax and learn social skills without being shaped by school. Boys having role models is so important. I think mixed Guides would be hugely beneficial for boys and long term for girls.