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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think that Scouting should be one group now?

247 replies

Flatpackjackie · 16/04/2018 21:52

As girls are allowed in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts, why aren't boys allowed in Rainbows, Brownies and Guides?

Or better still, just have one group for Beavers/Rainbows ages, one for Cubs/Brownies, etc?

Seems outdated and daft to separate by sex, especially as the Scouting groups include girls anyway.

(Not a TAT, not about trans issues at all.)

OP posts:
Sparkyspyro · 17/04/2018 05:11

For those mentioning a space for boys, does the boys brigade not exist any more? It was very popular where I lived.

sashh · 17/04/2018 06:48

Why do children, Brownies age, need a 'safe space' from boys?

About the same time as I was in brownies an older boy pulled my knickers down, I was in a group of children just playing, boy was about 12.

I was glad brownies was only girls.

Believeitornot · 17/04/2018 06:50

Yabu

Let them be. Not everyone agrees that boys should be in guides etc and not everyone agrees that gender is merely a social construct.

Let’s fully debate all issues re trans etc before making wholesale changes.

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2018 06:53

It’s also important to remember that guiding is an international organization. There are many girls worldwide who would not, for religious or cultural reasons, be allowed to join if it was mixed. In my opinion, they are more important than the few boys who might want to be Brownies.

Boulshired · 17/04/2018 07:27

There are very few spaces for boys where I am, but that is down to the fact that there is not enough men volunteers. The waiting lists for beavers is enough for two new packs and yet one is about to close, as they only have female volunteers and two 80 year old men who are retiring.

FullMetalRabbit · 17/04/2018 07:30

Here we go again

FullMetalRabbit · 17/04/2018 07:33

Boulshired why are your beaver colonies about to close because the only volunteers are female? Most of (if not all) the colonies in our district are run by women. This is usually because they start a lot earlier than cubs/scouts so it’s often only women who can get there.

Grandmaswagsbag · 17/04/2018 07:34

I agree. If girls are allowed in scouts it does only seem fair. I’d be very dissapointed if any of my kids wanted to join either though tbh. I’m meantally scared from being made to go to brownies and do the washing up and knitting badges Grin

Cath2907 · 17/04/2018 07:36

A Scout group can run without men! I am one of the 2 female leaders of our Beaver lodge. We’d like a male leader also but haven’t managed to find one yet. The organisations are different (I was a guide as a kid) and there is no harm in that!

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2018 07:39

"I agree. If girls are allowed in scouts it does only seem fair."

If you look down the thread you'll see why Guides are girls only.

I know a lot of Beaver colonies that have only women leaders. Probably the majority do.

budgiegirl · 17/04/2018 07:44

Boys are allowed in guides but individual packs are not forced to let boys join

That’s incorect. Boys are not allowed in guides. You might occasionally have a boy at a meeting, but that will be because they are the son of a leader, and have to come along if they can’t be left at home.

Grandmaswagsbag · 17/04/2018 07:45

i am not sure there's really the appetite amongst boys and girl guiding is advertised as a safe space for girls

But this is the attitude that does boys such a disservice. People constantly winge about their behaviour yet it’s IS still unacceptable for boys to break gender norms, not so much for girls. Do boys need a safe space from girls then or do they all need to just learn they’re all people and they can get on together?

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2018 07:46

"It’s also important to remember that guiding is an international organization. There are many girls worldwide who would not, for religious or cultural reasons, be allowed to join if it was mixed. In my opinion, they are more important than the few boys who might want to be Brownies.

I apologise for repeating myself!

Toomanytealights · 17/04/2018 07:56

I agree op

Marie you utterly are vilifying boys. Shouting down,saying girls are rubbish......

All boys are not like this. My boys aren't,my nephews aren't. What about them?What about my gay son? Do they not get somewhere they aren't shouted down or told they're rubbish in? Do they not get to go somewhere they feel comfortable in?They don't fit your alpha male stereotype so they just get to feel excluded from both groups. Separating groups like this just perpetuates the alpha male ideal and sexism. It's so wrong.

I think a change is long overdue. If we can't have male only clubs for adults then we shouldn't have female only clubs for children.

budgiegirl · 17/04/2018 07:58

When we've had girls either transfer in from Cubs or do both Brownies & Cubs, we've been told Brownies lets them do activities they wouldn't get to at Cubs (like craft & drama) & that the atmosphere is much calmer

That’s presumably down to the individual cub/brownie groups. Last night st cubs we did both craft and drama! It definitely wasn’t calm though!

Do boys need a safe space from girls then

Some people might argue that a boy only space is needed. But that doesn’t mean The Scout Organisation has to be the one to provide it. Anyone can start their own group for boys only if they wish.

Toomanytealights · 17/04/2018 08:13

Male and female children cross a huge spectrum. There is no alpha male/ passive female only. Anything that perpetuates this myth is outdated and wrong. They need mixing so boys and girls can learn that boys and girls come in many different packages. The sexism that goes on in both scouts and guides worries me. I think it needs more monitoring.

Skarossinkplunger · 17/04/2018 08:17

I don’t accept the need for female only spaces outside of organisations that deal with women who have suffered abuse from men.

I think it only perpetuates the myth that women and girls are precious flowers who need to be kept away from men and boys.

If I had daughters I wouldn’t allow them to join the Guides.

nicknamehelp · 17/04/2018 08:23

For me they are totally different and it's not about my d's having a safe space.

D's does Scouts it's v outdoor adventure based lots of boisterous behaviour. Which is just what most boys and some girls thrive on.

DD is a guide and the atmosphere is more sedate and activities suit my DD better.

Both groups often get together.

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2018 08:23

"The sexism that goes on in both scouts and guides worries me. I think it needs more monitoring."

Could you say more about this?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 17/04/2018 08:24

They don't fit your alpha male stereotype so they just get to feel excluded from both groups

No

They get to join beavers, cubs and scouts

The two organizations are, as has been said before, completely seperate

Grandmaswagsbag · 17/04/2018 08:24

Agree. The more kids are segregated by sex the more the opposite becomes ‘other’ and resentment and poor attitudes breed. We had zero sex segregation at my primary school incl. for loos and changing and it was great. The only memory I have from childhood of being segregated by sex is the brief time my mum tried to send me to brownies and it was appalling. I was expected to behave in a certain way that didn’t sit well with me at all and I could regonise those subtleties at 10. I was asked to leave and I was not a ‘naughty’ or troublesome child in any sense of the word! Just my experience though. Obviously if gg is a world wide organisation I see the issue with making it open to all in some parts of the world.

Grandmaswagsbag · 17/04/2018 08:25

Both organisations are certainly sexist from ME but I would hope they’ve changed somewhat since then!

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2018 08:27

Are people judging the Scout and Guide movement on current knowledge or on their own experience from 20/30 years ago?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 17/04/2018 08:29

Why are the Scouts sexist now grandma ?

outabout · 17/04/2018 08:29

Having been a Scout leader and with a mixed troop I can see great advantages of having a mix of boys and girls. If the basic rules of consideration and respect are maintained throughout the group by the leaders it allows the boys and the girls to understand each other better. Activities are planned that involve intelligence as well as physical strength and the 'results' are not always what you might expect. A few years ago we did an activity based on 'Water Aid', highlighting that usually women/girls in parts of Africa walk up to 10Km to fetch and carry 20 Litres of water for the family. (Don't start!) We equipped teams with a barrel, poles and rope and they had to walk 8Km or so and we measured how much water arrived. The girls team won due to their cooperation and more practical approach to carrying such a weight. The boys kept messing about and arguing!
Saying all this the GG should retain 'girls only' status and should not be pressured into taking boys.
Having seen some of the pranks girls come up with against some boys, most can hold their own and the understanding of the differences and similarities of each will be useful in later life.
It should be borne in mind that Scout groups do not have a fixed agenda like curriculum, and good leadership will mould the activities to suit the current troop, maybe having a vote to find out what type activities the majority want to do during the year.