to think that Scouting should be one group now?

[Flatpackjackie]

As girls are allowed in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts, why aren't boys allowed in Rainbows, Brownies and Guides?

Or better still, just have one group for Beavers/Rainbows ages, one for Cubs/Brownies, etc?

Seems outdated and daft to separate by sex, especially as the Scouting groups include girls anyway.

(Not a TAT, not about trans issues at all.)

“Non alpha males really miss out and it is actually very damaging for them. A mixed group would be healthier for all

This. It seems that no one thinks of them.”

Scouts is mixed.

Scouts and guides either need to be both mixed or reformed under one group.

Non alpha male boys just have to hope plenty of girls will join Scouts. In many cases they don't. Such boys then have nowhere to go and are often the very kids that need out of school activities. Many girls are put off scouts because not enough attend.

“Non alpha male boys just have to hope plenty of girls will join Scouts. In many cases they don't. Such boys then have nowhere to go and are often the very kids that need out of school activities. Many girls are put off scouts because not enough attend.”

Evidence for this, please?

Scouts and Guides were both given the opportunity to remain single sex or become mixed. Scouts became mixed because of catastrophically falling rolls. Guides chose, for excellent reasons, to stay girls only.

And if non alpha boys have issues with alpha boys then that is a,problem that needs to be addressed. But not by getting girls to budge up.

Girls are not there to sort out unacceptable behaviour in boys.

reformed under one group

They are two different groups...completely different organisations

Its like saying that the WI and young farmers must be reformed under one group

And why is it not ok that scouts is mixed but not guides

You are the ones making the stereotypes...it doesn't matter how many times we say that scouts is mixed its still 'not fair' but guides isnt

Oh enough already with the dramatic girls budging up whine. It's called equality and it cuts both ways. Excluding any child on the basis of their genitals is wrong. Kids don't just slot into two neat personality gender groups. There is a massive group in the middle that deserve to be catered for.

Frankly telling girls they need to be protected from boys and treated like delicate little flowers in this very mixed gender world is the last thing they need. It just sends out such appalling messages to them,alpha male boys and to boys who prefer hanging out with girls and a mixture i.e. those that don't fit anywhere.

And re evidence,evidence for what?

The massive group in the middle can join the scouts!!!

But plenty of boys would be more comfortable in Guides. They shouldn't be excluded,it's simply wrong.

It is sexist to say boys are all the same

Nobody has said all boys are the same.

It is sexist to say you can't join simply because you have a penis

I disagree. IMO it’s positive discrimination, which I believe in the current climate has a place in our society.

It is sexist to say girls can't cope with boys

It’s not sexist to say some girls prefer a single gender space where they can be themselves.

Telling them they can only be themselves away from boys doesn't arm them in the workplace or the world as a whole and is certainly not what I teach my dd.

Scouts and guides either need to be both mixed or reformed under one group

They are separate organisations. Why should they join, any more than the local gym club should join with the local karate club?

You are saying all boys are the same otherwise you wouldn't say girls need a club away from them all. Many of my ds's friends are girls,he is the one they confide in and turn to. To be frank he offers a far safer space than many of the girls who turn my dd's guide group into a bitch fest at times. Many boys are like him.

Teaching alpha male boys that girls need protection from them just makes them worse. Teaching non alpha males that all males are essentially the same and as a group something girls need to be protected from just makes them feel even more different and thus crap.

Wrong,wrong,wrong.

I have kids in both

Toomany Can you clarify, do you have kids in scouts and guides?

OK.
I was asking for evidence for your statement that non alpha boys and girls don’t want to go to Scouts-apparantly put off by the alpha boys. This is certainly not something I’ve seen at ours.

It’s also important to remember that there are many girls in this country and overseas that would not, for religious or cultural reasons be allowed to go to Guides ifnit was mixed.

The problem with the argument that equality cuts both ways is that the world is far from equal, when it is, in terms of money and power, I would wholeheartedly agree with you, until that day arrives, girls deserve every chance they can get.

Research (and no... sorry... I have no links to hand) that girls are more likely to speak out, to go against gender stereotypes and to take the lead in all girl environments and allowing them the opportunity to do this in their teenage years, equips them for the wide world and the work place where they are not afraid to speak up because they have practiced these skills already.

Going by our area several. Neither of my boys like Scouts due to the lack of girls and boys like them,the pack is tiny and I know many of their friends felt the same. There were 1 sometimes 2 girls who went. Dd has mentioned wanting boys at Guides and her friends are pretty like her,enjoy the company of boys like her brother etc. I don't think all girl situations are that healthy at times to be honest. I don't think all boy situations are healthy either.

So why don't the girls who want to company of boys all move to Scouts? Wouldn't that solve the issue? Why are you so determined that Guides should take boys?

I’ve put my non alpha boy in a female dominated hobby tbh as he’s much better with girls. He’s definitely a lover not a fighter.

Tealights I can't speak for everyone on here but I always wanted DD to have access to female only 'safe spaces' not to protect from boisterous boys or rough and tumble, but to allow her to be able to express herself without worrying about what boys think; to get grubby, sweaty and dirty and not feel, the need to pretty herself up or be attractive.

DD went to both Scouts and GG for a time but preferred GG because she could relax more. It made no difference if the boys at scouts were the alpha type or the opposite. They were still boys.

i Am troubled by this idea that if boys are “non alpha” they should join the girls and let the alpha boys take over the “boy space.” What sort of message is that sending?

You are saying all boys are the same

No you are

All scout groups are the same according to what you have posted, full of alpha boys

Both my sensitive thoughful gentle non alpha boys enjoyed scouting

But i will agree that their groups were fairly evenly mixed

And they all left cos they are lazy gits (including dd)

So i had better pop off the thread