to think that Scouting should be one group now?

[Flatpackjackie]

As girls are allowed in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts, why aren't boys allowed in Rainbows, Brownies and Guides?

Or better still, just have one group for Beavers/Rainbows ages, one for Cubs/Brownies, etc?

Seems outdated and daft to separate by sex, especially as the Scouting groups include girls anyway.

(Not a TAT, not about trans issues at all.)

Anyone saying the Brownies and Guides just do craft and knitting and claim that is current knowledge is either experiencing a very poorly run group or is simply lying.

This has been done to death before but I will say it again:

They are totally different organisations- like someone upthread said "it's like suggesting Sainsburys and Tesco merge" - ridiculous.

Nobody forced the scouts to become mixed - THEY CHOSE TO.

Girls do benefit from a girl only space. Even at a young age many girls can become dominated by boys, not because the boys are horrible or bullies or going to attack them in some way.
Of course SOME girls will do better/as well in a mixed group, and SOME will do better in a girl only group.
It's a good thing there is a choice.

Many leaders in scouting IME will quietly agree they regret Scouting went mixed, though they accept the mix is here to stay. If you want a boys only group, you could always start one.

Scouting would not have survived if it had stayed boys only- rolls were plummeting. Guides have always had waiting lists.

I play a role at a Beaver and Scout Group through the DCs, was a Scout as a teen (as soon as they opened their doors to girls my Mum phoned the Guides, said I'd finished and whacked me into Scouts) and have spent pretty much all my life in one group or another.

The girls who come to our Scout group are a fabulous addition to the group. They bring another side to it and enhance the whole group. There's very little silliness about gender and "girls can't" nonsense and it's shut down if it ever raises it's head. They don't opt out of activities because of their gender and it gives the Scouts opportunity to learn the important message that girls are their absolute equals.

I don't think adding males into Guides would offer the same kind of positive addition to the Guides lives. Girls already have boys everywhere telling them what they can and can't do, how they should and shouldn't look, through advertising, through peers, through role models, through old-fashioned parenting. Girls need space to push themselves and find things they excel at. Some choose to push themselves at Scouts, others in different ways. But growing up I was very aware that lots of the sports groups I attended were male-dominated from a young age. Boys seem to have chances and opportunities to excel everywhere. Guides gives girls that chance and I fully endorse the fact that they're sticking to their no-males policy. It can only be a good thing for the young people in those groups.

@budgiegirl nope, I was part of a troop that had 2 boys in it. Neither related to any leader. They've had the choice for coming up 2 decades

The most 'terribly wild' youngster in 'my' troop was a girl. A complete PITA on regular troop nights but outdoors was in her element.
There is too much lumping together of 'boys are like this' and 'girls are like that'. If you actually treat all as individuals and work with all of them as individuals great things can be achieved.
One thing that makes life harder for leaders is the effort to stay inclusive as you have to accept anyone who turns up. This can create any number of challenges but a creative leadership team usually gets it sorted.
Parents giving their kids fizzy drinks with aspartamine before Scouts is also rather nasty as you have to exercise the 'hyperactivity' out of them before they will settle and do anything.

I haven't read the responses so apologies if I am repeating what other posters have said. If you read Mary Beard Women and Power you will see that women have been silenced for centuries. You can take any sphere of life and compare the share of voice and remuneration between the sexes and in most spheres, women come in second place. There is literally centuries of ingrained male domination while persists in all walks of life. Girls benefit from having opportunities where they do not compete for share of voice with boys. They also benefit from sharing activities with boys and boys benefit from having girls around too. So there is a place for both and both are important.

DGD now 14 has been through Beavers, Cubs, Scouts and is now in Explorers. The idea of the girls’ groups wasn’t considered an option by her. For years she was the only girl in the group.
Her mother, my DD, was a quieter and timid child who loved Brownies and Guides and said she was glad they were girls only.

Thanks Spartacus, probably not.
After posting previously I could then think of at least a couple more 'disruptive' girl elements. The important aspect is that they are all individuals and need treating as such.
I was also thinking of a girl who in Cubs had usually stood in a corner often sucking her thumb and hardly joining in anything. We used to wonder if she would come the following week. 5 years later at leaving Scouts had achieved Queen Scout Gold.
Our Scout's map reading skills beat the pants off the Duke of Edinburgh youngsters!

@budgiegirl nope, I was part of a troop that had 2 boys in it. Neither related to any leader. They've had the choice for coming up 2 decades

Rbbmummy. If your Guide unit were allowing boys to join, they weren’t following their own policies. They are, and have always been girl only. Leaders do not have the choice to admit boys.

This is from the Girl Guiding website

We offer a safe, girl-only space for girls and young women to try new things, help other people and discover their passions and talents. All while having fun with a group of ready-made friends!

rose

I am being serious

There are apparently a number of different genders

Which ones are the guides working from...the basic two genders or are they ooen to others

My children go to school with various children who identify as demi girls and gender fluid amongst others

If the guides are going by gender are they taking all of these into account?

And some of my friends absolutely have children who identify as different genders

And some who identify as having none

Apologies to anyone i have offended

I did word it flippantly but its a serious question

I know too many children who are trans or different gender identities to be mean on purpose

I would hope and expect that ALL young people would be made welcome at Scouts.

Rufus they say that if you identify as a girl you can join, if you identify as a boy or non-binary you should leave and non-binary adults cannot make the promise (i.e. they are considered non-women).

So as you say what about all the teenagers who identify as something else, or as a girl some days and non-binary the others?
It was so much easier when it was Punks vs New Romantics.

@RBBMummy boys have NOT had the choice to join Guiding and they never have. I have no idea where your leader got that from.

Boys 14+ can be DofE volunteers within Guiding. Adult men can be Unit Helpers.

So thats even more girls drspouse that in theory can't join guides

The two agender girls i know were in the scouts so it wouldnt have affected them to be fair

Lots of interesting points
But if doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks
It’s up to the members of Girlguiding who have consistently voted to stay girls only

Yes exactly Rufus.
I have a leader friend whose DD varies in what she identifies as and I've suggested she keeps quiet about it.

(Personally, I don't "identify" as anything which totally confuses Twitter).

user in theory that would be great but GG have a long history of not listening to its members AT ALL.

And yes, the Scouts were struggling. They needed female leaders and they couldn't have them while they were male only.

that is completely incorrect. I know several (female) Scouters with 40 and 50 yr service awards. Scouting has always had female leaders.

Scouts may accept girls but are not obliged to. No, you are wrong Tanith - they do have to. there is the possibility that no girl has chosen to go, but they cannot turn them away. They can have a girls' troop and a boys' troop in the same group, and meet separately (this happens sometimes where the over-riding population is Muslim and teens can't mix with the opposite sex so freely), but they can't 'not allow' a girl to join if she asks.

The scouts where I live have a boy only pack and a mixed pack. They are totally wild! The cake making descended into a food fight, pond dipping was one of the most stressful experiences of my life!
that is down to really poor Leadership - whatever the organisation - not the organisation as a whole though.

My mum and one of my grandmothers were Guide Leaders. I am sure they would share my view that the Guides should remain girls only.

"And yes, the Scouts were struggling. They needed female leaders and they couldn't have them while they were male only"

Bollocks. Scouts were struggling because not enough boys wanted to join.

budgiegirl nope, I was part of a troop that had 2 boys in it. Neither related to any leader. They've had the choice for coming up 2 decades

Not in the UK, they haven't. Not least because Girlguiding does not have 'troops'.

Scouts have always had female leaders! (Well, ok, for last 45 years anyway) My DB's troop had female leaders alongside male leaders. There were female leaders in his beaver colony, his cub pack, and scout troop.