to be horrified that people are forgetting the Holocaust?

[FleurDelacoeur]

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-shows-americans-are-forgetting-about-holocaust-n865396

OK, so it's an American study but 11% of all adults and 20% of millenials in the US haven't heard of the holocaust, or aren't sure whether they've heard of it or not.

Given that this is one of the most important events of the 20th century isn't this simply appalling? How can people NOT know??

I'm not aware of the curriculum in the rest of the UK but I know my secondary age kids in Scotland have learned about the Holocaust as part of a WW2 topic, and it was touched on in RE too when they learned about Judaism.

And quite frankly if it wasn't in the curriculum I'd be making sure they knew about it as it's such an important event which should never be forgotten.

did
sorry

Sorry I made a bit of a mess of that last post. Will try again.

pallisers-They did "Facing History and Ourselves"

Hi
Hope you don't mind me asking but what did this childrens history lesson entail?
Sounds a bit ominous tbh

Alpine Flowers, is that the doc Night Will Fall? It's on my watch list on Canadian Netflix.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3455822/

Andylion-is that the doc Night Will Fall? It's on my watch list on Canadian Netflix.

Yes it is. That is the new version of the original Bernstein documentary

@walkingdeadfangirl

“It’s inevitable it will fade into history. I’m not surprised other continents don’t teach about it...they have their own historical disasters...”

WW2 only ended 73 years ago and America was quite heavily involved in helping to end the war, which susbsequently ended the Holocaust. 6 million Jewish people died. We should not be forgetting this within 100 years!

OP’s point was proven right away, a history lesson can never go amiss!

Here you go Alpine

www.facinghistory.org/

No idea why it would seem ominous to you except possibly you think americans are going to have dodgy education curricula just because they are american.

Maybe check your own prejudice?

Alpine. Maybe you thought it sounded ominous because it was teaching tolerance - is that what you meant?

How can people not not know the holocaust it was shoved down our throats when I was in school. It was compulsory to learn it.

We haven't forgotten. I get the shakes thinking they are going to do it all over again.

Andylion- is that the doc Night Will Fall? It's on my watch list on Canadian Netflix.

Sorry my previous answer about this was wrong. 'Night Will Fall' is about the filming of it, not the actual documentary.
If you look on YouTube though the actual full film will be there (that's where I first saw it, it was a Polish upload years ago). There is a version called Memory of the Camps as well. Or you could try the wiki page for the titles/versions
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Concentration_Camps_Factual_Survey

pallisers-Here you go Alpinewww.facinghistory.org/No idea why it would seem ominous to you except possibly you think americans are going to have dodgy education curricula just because they are american.

Thanks for the link

It seems ominous because I'm not sure history should be used to push modern political agendas on children. History is about researching evidence and understanding that evidence in the context of the times.It isn't there to teach lessons about modern morality or to place blame on a particular group or people now.

When faced with the evidence of the holocaust, the deeply upsetting and distrubing film footage for example or the Nuremburg Trials, it's hard not to feel emotional. You would have to have a heart of stone not to be affected but you have to put feelings aside and present it properly.

I don't like the idea of using historical events to teach children to 'face up to it' or 'face' themselves. Children should learn tolerance of course, but not in a history lesson that berates or orders them about or possibly even makes them feel bad for who they are

pallisers

....further

This is the information provided in your link. They are noble sentiments, but this isn't what learning history is about.

People Make Choices. Choices Make History. We help students learn about hatred and bigotry so they can stop them from happening in the future. Facing History fosters empathy and reflection...By integrating the study of history, literature, and human behavior with ethical decision making and innovative teaching strategies, our program enables secondary school teachers to promote students’ historical understanding, critical thinking, and social-emotional learning. As students explore the complexities of history, and make connections to current events, they reflect on the choices they confront today and consider how they can make a difference...Every day, reports of incidents of bigotry and hatred across the globe show us how fragile democracy can be...Through rigorous historical analysis combined with the study of human behavior, Facing History’s approach heightens students’ understanding of racism, religious intolerance, and prejudice; increases students’ ability to relate history to their own lives; and promotes greater understanding of their roles and responsibilities in a democracy.

The above are noble sentiments, but it isn't history.

I remember reading a comment from an American - no idea how old, but surely must have been quite young, but still close to being an adult - who had just found out and was astounded that US and Japan had been at war.

Another comment from an American that astounded me even more was his/her astonishment on discovering that Kennedy had been assassinated. Heavens knows what he/she will think when they discover about the assassination of the other three presidents.

I thought that the US school pupils studied their own history in detail.

It’s inevitable it will fade into history.

Any signs that neo-Nazism is fading into history?

Another comment from an American that astounded me even more was his/her astonishment on discovering that Kennedy had been assassinated. Heavens knows what he/she will think when they discover about the assassination of the other three presidents.

I thought that the US school pupils studied their own history in detail.

They do. My DD is in kindergarten and has learned about Kennedy, Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr., and Rosa Parks already. Not sure what sort of education that person received but I don't think it's representative of the entire country

DillyDallyDilly They do. My DD is in kindergarten and has learned about Kennedy, Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr., and Rosa Parks already. Not sure what sort of education that person received but I don't think it's representative of the entire country

I thought it seemed odd. As I wrote above, I had always assumed that Americans studied their own history and geography, but probably not world history or geography as much. I also wonder why people like to flaunt their ignorance so much in front of others.

But then I am constantly surprised at how little some people take from any situation and how perceptions of the same thing can differ. For example, I know someone, several years ahead of me at the same school, who claims that she did no Australian history (obviously we're Australian) or world history at school. I didn't say anything, but I thought, hang on, we did the best part of a whole year in high school solely on Australian history, as well as a lot in primary grades, plus a lot on world history. Other gems were that there were no books in the school. I remember reading constantly.

Additionally, she hated Ancient History as a school subject (content was Ancient Greece and Rome, and something I absolutely loved) largely because of a lack of consistency in the content, dates, etc. When I agreed that primary sources can be problematic, she said it was the set texts which were the problem. I used the same set texts which were standards and didn't notice the same thing. After numerous similar examples, I thought I give up, and now take everything she says with a grain of salt.

Two thirds of European Jews were disposed of. That is a truly shocking amount.

Seventy percent of the Tutsis were killed by Hutus in three months in Rwanda at the instigation of the government, well within living memory. The absolute numbers are lower, but still about a million people. I bet 90% of people here couldn't tell you which side was which. And six million dead in the ongoing civil war in the DRC. That is an equally shocking amount.

I see, DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops. I didn't do history for GCSE, so I stopped history aged 14, and we weren't taught anything related to it in either secondary or primary. Just lots of comparatively useless topics like the romans, which was fine, but I feel less useful to a kid in the 90s/2000s than an event that happened far more recently and still affects the present day more tangibly.

The majority of my knowledge of WW2 has been gained from reading around it as an adult and visiting the Sachsenhausen camp, visiting Berlin and doing tours there.

We should not be forgetting this within 100 years!

Indeed.

WWI ended 100 years ago. Thr deaths and the use of chemical weapons has been remembered. International laws have been passed.
A country was bombed just now in the name of those laws.

Even if the Holocaust itself is eventually less remembered, the understanding of the concept of genocide and international laws are its legacy.

TheQueenOfWands Wikipedia is a great place to begin. I learn loads from it, and then can go and read more from the references linked in articles, or look up books on the topic. I've been reading loads about the Russian revolution on there recently. It's handy as when key figures are mentioned, there's a link to their own wiki page so you can read about them before going back to the original article. Many key figures I'd heard of (Stalin, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky) but hadn't a clue about why they were well known, I now have a basic grasp of.

History is massive. It's intimidating! I didn't learn about WW2 in school so my knowledge was so limited I didn't even know Japan, Poland, etc were involved. I had no idea why modern Korea is split in two, why Syria is at war, even further back stuff like the fact Britain owned other countries somehow. It sounds all very silly and basic (and in the words of mydoghatesthebath 'thick') but people grow up and only know what they know, if it's not taught in school and parents aren't talking about it it's not your fault you haven't a clue. History stretches back as far as we can imagine, it's a lot of knowledge.

And it's difficult I fine because everything affects everything else, and news articles for current events tend to presume a certain level of understanding you may not already possess.

So definitely start with wiki. I'm interested in the ancient Egyptians, the roman gladiators, WW2 and the Russian revolution ATM so have enjoyed using wiki to start to learn about those. It's fab because it's usually in very basic terms that explains everything in an accessible way without any presumption of prior knowledge.

History should be for anyone to learn about and calling people 'thick' for not knowing about it, or even knowing they don't know about it, just puts people off even further and makes it elitist.

The holocaust yes, because there are people still alive today who lived through it.

That's not really my point. If you aren't connected with those people .... it's not going to have the same importance to you. That's not to say you can't sympathise or recognise the suffering they went through.

My DD is doing History GCSE and she very much enjoys the American history about civil rights... she's told me how some of her white classmates aren't interested... because it's America...it's about black people, it's not UK history...so why are they even learning it.

That's life.

LimonViola: Sir Francis Bacon wrote: "Histories make men wise; poets, witty; the mathematics, subtle; natural philosophy, deep; moral, grave; logic and rhetoric, able to contend.”

I first read this in an English lesson, when I was 14, and it has always stuck with me.

I must admit, however, that I grew up in a household with two history mad, considerably older brothers who didn't think it was beneath them to discuss things and explain them to me when I was very young.

I disagree with Alpine in relation to History. It does inform the present and why we are here in the situation that we are.
Even at Ancient Greece and Rome we can take many lessons.
See the rise of Julius Caeser

I think we should move on, we have new issues to worry about.

Presumably, starzig feels we should scrap Remembrance Sunday and ban the selling of poppies?

My great uncle was involved in the liberation of Belsen and he could never speak about it and even in his 70s and 80s if there was any mention of the Holocaust on TV he would start to weep.

Don't fucking dare to suggest we should move on (which by implication means "forget it now").

Think its a bit unfair to state that Millenials are more interested in taking selfies than about the Holocaust.. Yes, my 19 year old likes taking selfies, however whilst she didn't take history at schoolasvan option, they all read Anne Frank's diary and educated themselves about the history surrounding it.
We all visited her house whilst in Amsterdam and my DD's took their time reading every exhibit and asking questions about stuff they weren't sure of.