to be horrified that people are forgetting the Holocaust?

[FleurDelacoeur]

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-shows-americans-are-forgetting-about-holocaust-n865396

OK, so it's an American study but 11% of all adults and 20% of millenials in the US haven't heard of the holocaust, or aren't sure whether they've heard of it or not.

Given that this is one of the most important events of the 20th century isn't this simply appalling? How can people NOT know??

I'm not aware of the curriculum in the rest of the UK but I know my secondary age kids in Scotland have learned about the Holocaust as part of a WW2 topic, and it was touched on in RE too when they learned about Judaism.

And quite frankly if it wasn't in the curriculum I'd be making sure they knew about it as it's such an important event which should never be forgotten.

We only did history up to ww1 in history but beyond that in social studies. Plus when we were kids it was first hand family experiences and memory, and there was a lot of films and documentaries on TV about the war.

A very informative link there lweji

There was a collective punishment meted out on the jews by the nazis, just because they were jews.

There is a collective punishment meted out on the palestinians by Israel, just because they are Palestinian.

There was a collective punishment meted out on black people —apartheid in South Africa.

There is a collective punishment meted out on Palestinian people — apartheid in Israel.

Can we stop saying bullshit like “the Jewish Holocaust is the most important because it had the highest death toll.”

It makes it sound like the 1 mil Tutsis killed in rawanda not even 25 years ago did matter.

Or the 7.5 million killed in Ukraine.

Or the 3 million in Cambodia.

All of these events are important.

Yes, it's possible to feel sorry for a group of people for how they've been treated by another group, and angry at that same group (although not necessarily in the same period) for how they treat other groups.

As much as I support the existence of a state of Israel, feel sorry for how jews have been treated by multiple other groups over the centuries, and absolutely condemn terrorist actions on Israelis, it is true that the state of Israel, and certain groups within it, have been absolute bastards towards palestinian civilians and have been abusing their own power.

They've created ghettos, which is ironic.
forward.com/opinion/383573/israel-has-created-a-palestinian-ghetto-in-hebron-and-it-has-nothing-to-do/

(and yes, I understand that each point of view exaggerates their own plight and diminishes the problems felt by the other side)

Hmm

Saying something was the most important doesn't imply all the rest didn't matter.
By definition, all are important, but one does usually stand out for whatever reason. It tends to become the beacon and the reference for all others.

We studied WW2 and the holocaust extensively at school and I am only 28 so it wasn't that long ago so I'm surprised that there are people in the UK that say they didn't get taught it at school. Just shows how variable education is I suppose.
When I was 17 I went on a trip to Poland with school. We visited Auschwitz and I can honestly say that even 11 years on I can still remember how desolate and horrifying it was. I don't think I will ever forget it and I honestly can't even properly describe the feeling of being there.
I think it's very important that children are taught not just about the holocaust but about other atrocities in history such as Bosnia etc. We should never forget what humans are capable of doing to each other and we should try our hardest to learn from previous events.

batman, I think what you’re forgetting is that although there have been cataclysmic events resulting in terrible bloodshed in Cambodia, Ukraine, Rwanda these were isolated events.

They are not the result of thousands of years of systematic international persecution. The Holocaust is one in a long, long series of events and it was hoped the creation of the state of Israel would be a stepping stone to ending that persecution. Instead it seems to have become just another new aspect of it.

Part of the reason the Holocaust is seen as such a major event even in comparison to other genocides is the systematisation of it, as others have said. The Nazis had records/estimates of how many Jews were living in other countries, because they planned to murder all of them once they'd achieved their aim of taking over the whole world, and needed to plan the scale of the death camps they would have to build (in countries as far away as Australia) in order to carry this out. There have been plenty of genocidal dictators with ambitions to rule the planet, of course, but I'm not aware of any others who have gone to such lengths to plan how they would exterminate their victims on the other side of the world. They were so determined to kill every single Jewish person that they sent a special boat to the Channel Islands to bring three Jewish women they knew of on Guernsey to mainland Europe, so they could be sent to the gas chambers.

From a British point of view there's also the fact that our country was directly involved in fighting Nazi Germany, so obviously we're likely to learn more about it in school and through general culture. There's also - rightly or wrongly - a strong perception of Germany and the other European countries they invaded as relatively stable, wealthy countries with cultures not all that different from our own. We're more likely to know Germans or Austrians living here, or to have met them while visiting on holiday, than say Rwandans or Cambodians, so genocides in those countries are easier to dismiss as something that would happen elsewhere but never here.

Good points, Psychomath.

Germany is so close to us geographically and culturally (our Royal family are more or less German for example), it was so recent that they waged war against us (and the rest of the world), and also, what is also striking, is just how culturally advanced Germany is and was as a nation. Germany has produced so many leading scientists, writers and composers. As the man who wrote The Pianist said (the book version), he could not fathom how a such an incredibly civilised and culturally refined nation, the nation that produced Bach, Beethoven, Schubert and Mendelssohn, could in less than a decade descend to such barbarism. It is sobering.

Basically, everything that was inflicted on the jews by Nazis, Israel has now made Palestinians suffer very similarily

Either you don't know what happened to the Jews during the holocaust or for some reason - you are deliberately spreading an incredible lie. Are you genuinely suggesting one million Palestinian children have been lined up, stripped and put crying into gas chambers? Really?

The Palestinian fight is important - what you said however makes you look utterly stupid.

I am a descendant of survivors, some of whom I have met, and I do think that over time the Holocaust will and should become 'part of history'. In many ways the aftermath is still affecting the world today, so I think there should still be broad awareness, and should be used to highlight other genocides that have happened and will happen, but it is right and normal that it the memory should recede over time.

That’s exactly what I think, Echobelly-:but didn’t want to say in case it looked like I was minimising the holocaust

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this but there is a film on Amazon Prime called “the promise” which is about the Armenian genocide. This was a systematic action and out of 1.5million living in the Ottoman Empire it is estimated that iver 1 million were killed although this is argued.

I feel that it is important to show that the Holocaust was not an isolated event as people believe it could not be repeated yet it was a repeat of the Armenian Genocide.

All countries write their history books according to their interests and in some cases based on what they were allowed to write about. The Armenian genocide is particularly sad as to this day, it has not been accepted/agreed upon and prevents it from being recognised formally.

the memory should recede over time.

Even while there are still survivors and perpetrators alive?

I don't think Israel's treatment of Palestinians is anything like the holocaust. Palestinians are getting a lot of funding and arms coming in from neighbouring Arab countries.

Youdonothaveto - have you ever wondered how despite suffering Nazi-like treatment the Palestinians have increased in number by around 10 times since 1948. Seems to be one of the most unsuccessful genocides in history.

NB - comparing Israeli govt actions with Nazis is one of the planks on the IHRA definition of anti-semitism

sam, my intention is most certainly not to be anti semitic and if what you say above about nazi comparsion of israeli government is considered to be anti semitic, then I will accept that and will re-phrase my objection.

Youdonot - a bit late for that, I suspect. Imagine a similar conversation about another ethnic minority:

a: I've just been to Bradford, or €$¥% town, as I call it
B: you do realise that the term €$¥% is racist
A: oh well, I'll rephrase it

It would just confirm the initial view.....

sam, my intention is most certainly not to be anti semitic and if what you say above about nazi comparsion of israeli government is considered to be anti semitic, then I will accept that and will re-phrase my objection

Oh dear.

SamG76- despite me also taking issue with YouDoNotHaveTo’s comments, I find your grasp of the situation in Palestine and Israel deeply naive and troubling.