to be horrified that people are forgetting the Holocaust?

[FleurDelacoeur]

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-shows-americans-are-forgetting-about-holocaust-n865396

OK, so it's an American study but 11% of all adults and 20% of millenials in the US haven't heard of the holocaust, or aren't sure whether they've heard of it or not.

Given that this is one of the most important events of the 20th century isn't this simply appalling? How can people NOT know??

I'm not aware of the curriculum in the rest of the UK but I know my secondary age kids in Scotland have learned about the Holocaust as part of a WW2 topic, and it was touched on in RE too when they learned about Judaism.

And quite frankly if it wasn't in the curriculum I'd be making sure they knew about it as it's such an important event which should never be forgotten.

Even if the Holocaust itself is eventually less remembered, the understanding of the concept of genocide and international laws are its legacy.

Well, sure. One legacy of the Holocaust is the UN's recognition of genocide as a special kind of war crime, above all others. This we can agree on.

What I disagree with is that the 'accepted' definition of genocide is apolitical/beyond reproach.

Another relevant quote is Spanish/American philosopher, George Santayana's aphorism: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Many would like to pretend slavery didn't happen because it's uncomfortable.

It was immigration, you know?

Really?

Are you choosing to pick the bit that suits because the rest is uncomfortable? Or because you don't know what the rest actually is.

Torturing people was not immigration. I'm referring to slavery in North America and parts of South America which the UK were complicit it.
More commonly known as the triangular trade. Slavery couldn't have happened in the Americas without the UK.

Raping female slaves was not immigration.

Digging holes for them to lie down in while pregnant to protect the unborn child (later become a slave) while the female slave was whipped by the slavemaster or the overseers was not immigration.

It wasn't immigration, it was free labour. To work the farms and pick cotton because they couldn't do it themselves.

They first got indentured white servants who flaked out and couldn't work in the heat....so another plan came into action...and you're calling that immigration.

The windrush was immigration..... Slavery was slavery. Call it as it is. No minimising is required.

This isn't a slavery debate...I'm just saying that people remember and find things relevant to them (by way of culture/family ties when they have a vested interest in the topic at hand.

I definitely don't think we should do about the Holocaust, it is a human tragedy and is a prime example of the impact of racism, disablism ect and the the most organised murder in history.
That being said, the way it is taught I English (was only taught in England so can only comment on this) schools needs looking at. Often groups other than the Jews are not mentioned which miss represents the true scale and implications of the Holocaust and the German people are miss represented. E.g. all German were involved in the Holocaust (not true it was the Nazi party) and they were living the life of Riley out side of the ghettos(not true, life was a little better but not by much)
At least this is what I was taught by my school and frankly it's lazy and insulting to everyone who suffered on both sides

Totally agree Mammy, this NY Times article is up to date and very informative www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday-review/the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.html

What we must remember is that it all started with propaganda and the othering of groups.

Of course its not up to the schools, but also parents that they raise children with a good knowledge of history as well as current affairs. To understand current affairs you need at least a basic understanding of history. At home we read books and watch films and documentaries together which also educate our children. We also travel a lot of visit for example Berlin, the beaches of Normandy for European history and we have done the US east coast and soaked up lot of history there too. Its a shame that some people just go to Spain and lie on sunbeds.

@SandyY2K

The immigration comment was mocking Dr Carson's statement.

Jam I’m in the SE too. It does surprise me but I really make sure I upush the point given the fact that they don’t seem to get that initially.

Mammy whilst I entirely agree that it wasn’t all Germans I think it is really dangerous to teach ‘it was just the Nazi party’. We are at risk of letting kids have the impression that these people were born evil with swastikas on their arms and that’s why the Holocaust happened. It didn’t. Hitler was elected with anti-Semitic rhetoric. No he didn’t say his plan was mass murder (debatable that it was at that point) but normal people - in their millions - voted for it. Then normal people took up jobs in offices and factories all of which allowed the Holocaust to happen. Then normal people turned the other way and many celebrated when Jews were forced out of their homes. People lived close enough to extermination camps to know. If it had ‘just been the Nazi party’ the Holocaust could never have happened. And that’s why I think it is so important to keep teaching it. To keep our kids from buying into stereotypes and scapegoating. Because that’s why the Holocaust happened. And if we have any chance of stopping genocides, that’s where we need to start.

What I disagree with is that the 'accepted' definition of genocide is apolitical/beyond reproach.

Genocide is a word created to define a specific set of circumstances. It's not a physical entity.

So, that's an odd comment.

Perhaps you can create another word to define other circumstances or an extension of genocide.
But I don't see that the current definition should change.

Of course there was a German resistance. Not supported by the British government in the 30s of course. I think British history also tend to glorify Britain.

princess not enough German resistance to stop them being voted in the first place nor to stop anything that happened afterwards. Not sure how the British role has been glorified in anyway?

i dont think people have forgotten the holocaust in the UK, as it is on the primary national curriculum. IN fact it was more or less the only topic covered in primary history, along with WW2.

Wow, the footage shown is utterly horrifying.

What is unbelievable watching the drone footage is how much effort and money must have been spent PLANNING to torture, experiment upon, and exterminate millions of people.
The railways, the buildings, the ovens, the gas chambers, the staff quarters.

I find it supremely distasteful reading the competitive nature of some of the posts on this thread. The Holocaust, Rwanda, Bosnia, DRC, and countless other atrocities are beyond appalling in their own right. They need a thread each.

The German resistance was absolutely tiny. There was barely any protest about the Anti-semitism; the resistance was centered on the fear that Germany was going to lose the war.

With a vast Army/Police/secret service/no independent judiciary, pre 1939, anyone opposing Hitler was killed, their families shipped to a camp, by the time the war started, resistance was futile.
A guard sent to Auschwitz refusing to report for duty would be shot or inc in the next batch to be gassed, followed by his family.

Would anyone here be so keen to stand up for, lets say the Caribbean Windrush community facing deportation if it meant death for you and your loved ones? you d certainly think twice before signing that petition, let alone marching outside Parliament.

We d all keep our heads down and it would nt matter if the Government of the day started killing them.

I'm not going to argue with anyone about this subject. And yes the people who voted Hitler in to power were wrong to do so and they should have fought against him but it is dangerous for all living in a dictatorship. Say the word thing and you end up being g murdered too. Self preservation is and unfortunate part of the human condition but it doesn't make it right.
Just to add my knowledge of the non Jewish Germans comes from first hand sources, not books or the internet. From family members who didn't vote for Hitler but were near starved because of his regime and terrified to say anything even though they knew it was wrong. All I'm saying s that clarification is needed when teaching such subjects. It was the Nazi party and their following not every single German persn. People need teaching about how it is to live in a dictatorship. It doesn't excuse it but it can lend some understanding.
My grandmother said something that always stayed with me. " When you see the gun pressed to your mother's head and the sas demanding to know something about your Jewish neighbors, the terror in her eyes is burned in your soul. She didn'tt want to say anything, but it was her life or Thiers and she made her choice and regret ed it every day of her life. When she got cancer she refused treatment because she said that she deserved it as she chose her life and those of her children over her neighbours. She died in agony ttying to make up what she did in under torture"
Just to add my family did leave Germany and fought against Hitler with the English and French

People need teaching about how it is to live in a dictatorship. It doesn't excuse it but it can lend some understanding.

Which is why it's important to teach how dictatorships come to be and how to avoid them.

That's why so many of us were able to spot dangerous signs before Trump was elected and are still concerned, for example.
It doesn't take much for a country to slip into a dictatorship that it's hard to get out of. And when I say hard, I mean without blood spilling or many decades of hardship.

My point exactly jasjas1973. Most don't want to play a part in the kids Killing of others but fear is a powerful thing.

resistance was futile.

I know. But still, a tiny minority resisted.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of them. And remember his words: ''Not to speak is to speak, not to act is to act''.

Mammy I'm sorry to hear about your family's past and I agree it is really important that we understand what a dictatorship means in reality. Lots of my pupils ask why people didn't resist and i explain that it was too big and too efficient to do so, the Gestapo would take you and that was that.
What I'm trying to say though is that the only reason the Nazi party were in power to begin with was because people voted them in. Rhetoric like 'make Germany great again' (deliberate bastardisation there) would always mean persecution of the other. Maybe they didn't realise that then but we need to keep reminding people of this when they hear the same rhetoric during elections now.

It doesn't take much for a country to slip into a dictatorship that it's hard to get out of.

So true. The first sign is always shutting down free speech. Only 'politically correct' speech allowed. That's already happening in the West.

'If this is a Woman' by Sarah Helm is a heart wrenching, stomach punching, gut wrenching book, about the Holocaust ever written.

I dare you to read it.

BTW, I was born in Portugal, still under a dictatorship. My parents lived their lives under it.

Spain lived under one at about the same time.

It's not a remote concept.