BF's kids' behaviour

[cheeseycrackers]

Name changed for this. Sorry it's long.

Easter monday was the only 'festive' day of the holidays that I had with my two daughters (9 and 10) as they were with their dad for the rest of it and a large portion of the school holidays itself. As such we all wanted Easter Monday as our celebration day and just wanted to be on our own. BF was wanting to come over with his kids and join us for the day and stay overnight (nowhere for them to sleep but beside the point) I explained that it was the only day we had as a family over Easter weekend and was sorry but we'd see them all another time instead. Part of the reason for this is that my older kids don't really like his kids which makes it difficult for me. BF was upset saying we didn't want them there so I felt guilty and compromised on them coming over late afternoon for pizza and a film. No overnight stay.

Possibly good to point out: due to the way things work out with when we both have our kids, our respective kids don't see each other very often at all (about 5 times so far in 9 months) and they don't see my BF very often either.
On previous occasions their behaviour has been challenging so for this visit I insisted that there was no climbing or jumping on the furniture, bouncing on the furniture or climbing on the kitchen work surfaces. BF agreed to these house rules and said he would make sure they understood.

Anyway, my BF spent Easter Sunday morning with me and my little boy who is 2 (different dad) but then went to his parents with his kids (6 and 8) for the rest of the day once he'd picked them up from his ex mid-morning.

Fast forward to Easter Monday and they arrive, we give them their Easter eggs and we put on the film my kids thought would be the best for all the ages.

After about 5 minutes the youngest starts doing karate and kick boxing moves in the middle of the lounge blocking everyone's view of the tv. Her dad tells her to sit down and she ignores him. I ask her to sit down, she ignores me. My kids tell her they can't see the tv and to sit down and stop jumping around. Ignored. Meanwhile her brother has ants in his pants and is bouncing on his bum on the sofa and climbing around on it. BF tells his daughter if she doesn't sit down and watch the film they will be going home. She ignores him, carries on and he does nothing. In the end we give up watching the film and I order pizza.

Everyone sits at the table for dinner. Immediate sulking from the daughter as I've sat her and her brother either side of their dad. Last time they came and sat next to my youngest they were messing about so much at the table that he started choking on his food. It was really scary and not wanting a repeat of that I insisted that the seating arrangement was different. The daughter spent most of the meal curled up on her chair crying and refusing to eat. Dad did nothing apart from say her name in an "Oh Daisy (not her real name)" kind of placating way. I was getting annoyed by this point as her brother was all over the place at the table so my daughters were getting annoyed too especially as their film was already ruined and now dinner was too. My LB finished his dinner so in order to get "Daisy" to eat I moved him round to sit next to her and lo and behold she bounces up and eats some dinner!

As soon as dinner is over my BF announces they are leaving. He had left his Easter egg from me and the kids at mine so picked it up along with theirs. His was bigger than theirs (he told me only to get them a small one as in his opinion they didn't need to be any more hyper from loads of sugar). His daughter turns to me and demands to know why her dad has got a bigger egg than her and tells me it's not fair. Maybe I shouldn't have got him a bigger one but they only did that particular egg in one size. She was really rude and I was quite taken aback. I told her not to speak to me like that and my BF just said, "Daisy!" with a look of embarrassment. He apologised but she didn't. She did something similar on her birthday complaining about the cake her dad had asked me to make for her wasn't the kind she wanted and had I got her anything else it was it just the one present. However she's only 6, I'm her dad's first girlfriend since her parents split (BF says she loves me) and therefore I didn't say anything to him about it.

So off they went home and my daughters begged me not to invite them again!

Did I handle things badly? What could I have done differently to make things better and enjoyable? How can I get my BF to understand that we all find his kids' behaviour awful? Is it unreasonable to not want them to visit us again? ?!

YAB a bit U to expect children of that age to sit down and shut up for 3 hours. HWBVU for knowing they cannot do that and then trying to make YOU enforce it anyway because he didn't want to deal with it.

I think you sound like you dislike them. Completely just my take on what you've written so feel free to ignore. 6 is pretty young to sit quietly and watch a film then eat a meal. Just because your children will doesn't mean every child has the patience/concentration for that. I'm absolutely astounded that your two year old will sit and watch a whole film and then sit still for dinner. I must just have low standards because mine certainly wouldn't.

Crawling over sofa's and doing karate in front of the tv when people are watching IS poor behaviour. I would be annoyed too.
It might be his kids are attention seeking? Maybe they want their dads attention rather than being told they are watching a girl with your kids (who they don't get on with)? Not your fault though OP.

Are you middle class than your boyfriend?

What on earth is 'middle class' about expecting children to sit down and be quiet? It's not middle class parents I hear roaring at their children to "SHURRUP!" in Tesco

Are you middle class than your boyfriend?

Ha ha ha, only on mumsnet! So working class children are more likely to disrupt a film and crawl over furniture?

You need to learn to say NO and mean it to your BF.

And the second thing is that he had obviously not done much with his kids before they got to yours. Maybe they do want to see you because you might do stuff and it's "boring" with their Dad who can't be bothered.

If I was bringing my DC round to watch a film with you, I would have made sure they had had a good run around before hand. These children sound under exercised.

If the kids were allowed to play outside and weren’t forced to sit and watch a film they didn’t want to watch them there would have been no bum shuffling or living room karate. Poor hosting imo to select an activity then make visiting children do it if they like it or not.
And I’d be more concerned about a 2 yr old who routinely sits passively for 3 hrs tbh.

Everything WhereYouLeftIt said with big brass bells on.

I was that person putting others first. I wasn't even in the queue. It's been liberating to learn to think otherwise (counselling for something I thought was totally unrelated to anything like this was quite an eye opener!).

And yes, a NT six year old should be able to sit down for 20 minutes to eat a meal. How long do you think they are expected to keep to their seats at school?

The child did sit for the meal didn’t they while sobbing because they couldn’t sit in the seat they wanted?
Expecting them to sit still for the whole afternoon was silly though particularly if they are active children.
Something is going to have to give if the r’ship is going to be long term and there will have to be give and take on both sides. The op can’t just avoid her dh’s children if she ends up living with her bf for eg.
I think it would be sensible to relax some rules for eg all children must watch films together and keep some non negotiable - respecting the house and not breaking things. Let the children run off some steam outside. All kids are different. Some are happy to be more sedentary and others need to move more.

They sound like little brats. Its not your job to parent them and its your house with your rules.

I have kids, my DP has kids. He reprimands mine if theyre out of line (probably easier bc we live together) but when his kids are over at mine, if theyre getting too rowdy etc I will say it. DP backs me up. Its about mutual respect and support.

Its never easy to tell someone else's children off and tbh when youre all together like that HE should be the one doing it. Youre not their mum and he should be the one a) parenting and b) going the extra mile so that you dont come across as the bad guy for enforcing your very reasonable rules!!

If a six year old sobs curled up in a chair because they can't have the seat they want, that is a massive red flag about the father being totally unable/unwilling to parent his child. He didn't make any attempt to talk to her, reassure her or explain anything to her. I feel sorry for her, she sounds desperate for her dad to show he cares by setting some boundaries for her and giving her some demonstrable love and attention.

Did you miss the bit where because of chaos at the table on a previous visit OP's two year old ended up choking?

Does the child get to pick a new seat in class every morning - of course not, and she's presumably able to cope because school is a place with routine and consistency. I'm placing the blame for any problems with the children's behaviour exactly where it belongs, which is on their father.

None of this if for the OP to fix and her children shouldn't have to be around it. As I've previously said, I'd ditch him.

Apologies - that reads a lot more harshly than I intended. Disney dads are a bugbear of mine. I must learn to preview my posts.

It may have been harsh Weezol, but it was also fair. "his ex frequently argues with him over their behaviour and her perceived lack of discipline at his house." He is a Disney Dad, and it is causing problems for his children and everyone around them. The responsibility lies squarely with him.

They sound like brats. The deciding factor for me would be that your kids dont like them. Why subject them to those children. They dont respect and are rude to you now, imagine the teen years. Your bf sounds useless as well so this will become an issue

Weezol I think you are right. Daisy does this every time and also does it every time in the car. She wants her car seat next to my LO's and it's been explained many times that she can't because the seats can't physically go next to each other as they don't fit and the seat belts aren't accessible. Cue floods of tears and wailing and "oh Daisy" followed by zero input from dad.

I wonder if my BF always going on holiday with his parents and other families but never on his own with his kids is part of the bigger picture of not wanting to parent them as others have said. I hadn't thought of it like that. They spend most of their week after school in activities like swimming, karate, brownies, cubs and go to Sunday school each week where he sits and chats to other parents and they learn. In the holidays they often go to stay at their grandparents for a few nights.adding it all up it does seem like he's off loading them as much as possible.

My eldest said the other day "imagine if Phil (not his real name) asked you to marry him!" She looked really excited by that. I countered with, " imagine living with Daisy and Henry" She looked horrified and promptly shut up.

So you see no future in the relationship and aren't trying to encourage your children to see the positive side of his children. Why are you pursuing the relationship?

Also, why are you criticizing his parenting so much? Do you need a reason to end it?

I'd want to know if someone felt like that about my children. Though to be honest I probably would pick up on it and end the relationship; I wouldn't want anyone who whose main emotion towards them was irritation around them. Unless he's supremely thick he probably does realise but is just lazily pressing on because it's easier. What is there to find attractive in such a man? You don't like his kids or want them around, you don't like how he parents them. What is there to save here?

"I wonder if my BF always going on holiday with his parents and other families but never on his own with his kids is part of the bigger picture of not wanting to parent them as others have said."
Yes. Yes it is.

"They spend most of their week after school in activities like swimming, karate, brownies, cubs and go to Sunday school"
Where they are effectively being 'parented' by not-him.

"adding it all up it does seem like he's off loading them as much as possible."
Yes. Yes he is.

Is that the sound of a penny dropping I hear, cheeseycrackers?

Brats??

I feel sorry for his kids tbh. They are over excited to see him and then they are expected to sit down watch a film and eat dinner quietly Why the hell is he bringing them to yours when clearly no one has a good time?

The kids get a list of things they can not do before they come to your home

Finish it with him because it’s really not fair on the kids but before you do point him in the direction of some books on raising children and children in split families

She looked really excited by that. I countered with, " imagine living with Daisy and Henry" She looked horrified and promptly shut up

You hate his kids that much your pushing that feeling on to your kids to do the same. You should feel embarrassed about that

She looked really excited by that. I countered with, " imagine living with Daisy and Henry" She looked horrified and promptly shut up

I do agree that this was a very unkind thing to say, encouraging your DD to dislike your BF's DCs.

He sounds dire @op! Run like the wind, please. What a big man-child-Disney-dad (do I get extra point for using both of those MN classic phrases in one ). His poor children clearly need some boundaries and parenting, (NOT by the op, but by their dad, you know, their parent). My first thought was that he insisted on bringing them to the op so that he wouldn’t have to parent them himself, which is a big red flag to me. The subsequent posts by the op seem to confirm this. And YY to this;

“You sacrificed time with your children, because that's what your BF wanted. I think you have to think about that in itself, tbh.”

I bet the op didn’t even notice this^^ happening.

I’ve seen this sort of dynamic irl. A NRP who just cannot cope parenting his own dcs, so he dumps them on the nearest gp or the current gf as much as possible. Wonder why his ex is now an ex...

What could you have done differently: been a bit more flexible to his dc. So 4yo(?) didn't like the film: suggest phil takes him to play with toys / practice karate in the other room or the garden. A child is crying for the whole of a meal: step in and say phil why dont you take her to go and calm down in the hall. Then he could have a combination of time out and cuddles and you coukd eat in peace.

I dont know it does sound like his parenting skills are non-existent. It sounds like it falls to you to be an adult. None of this is his dc's fault.

I think you could encourage him to parent better when he complains about the dc i.e try telling daisy that its not acceptable to cry every time she doesnt het her own eay and remove her from situations/ time out if she is deliberately making a fuss for no good reason (my 4yo does this and we are trying to get him to stop).

I agree with PP that it would be much easier not to take this relationship further.

My cousin was a little brat. Not a split family, her mother just gave her everything she wanted when she wanted and made sure it was the most expensive and ostentatious. Her father made protestations but wasnt firm enough about them.

Now my cousin is a big brat. Shes mid twenties and behaves like a two year old. I could be on the phone to my Uncle discussing important things (probate matters, not that the topic is relevant) and hear her screaming at him to put the phone down because she needs him to come and giver her card details for her to clear her credit card. Uncle told me he had to go sort it for her or she wouldnt shut up... I asked him why the hell he let her get away with that carry on. This is a true story, btw.

Do you want to be in that sort of situation 15 years from now? Parenting and disciplining children is tough enough at the bast of times, but parenting someone elses is a whole new thing.

Id never heard the phrase Disney Dad before MN but it seems applicable. He needs to tell his DD to cop on. It seems very clear she knows what shes doing- otherwise they cant play together. Simple as.

Its not your job to tell her, its his. If he is incapable of doing it then youve got to put your DC first.

Little brat now... if allowed to continue, will turn into a big brat.