BF's kids' behaviour

[cheeseycrackers]

Name changed for this. Sorry it's long.

Easter monday was the only 'festive' day of the holidays that I had with my two daughters (9 and 10) as they were with their dad for the rest of it and a large portion of the school holidays itself. As such we all wanted Easter Monday as our celebration day and just wanted to be on our own. BF was wanting to come over with his kids and join us for the day and stay overnight (nowhere for them to sleep but beside the point) I explained that it was the only day we had as a family over Easter weekend and was sorry but we'd see them all another time instead. Part of the reason for this is that my older kids don't really like his kids which makes it difficult for me. BF was upset saying we didn't want them there so I felt guilty and compromised on them coming over late afternoon for pizza and a film. No overnight stay.

Possibly good to point out: due to the way things work out with when we both have our kids, our respective kids don't see each other very often at all (about 5 times so far in 9 months) and they don't see my BF very often either.
On previous occasions their behaviour has been challenging so for this visit I insisted that there was no climbing or jumping on the furniture, bouncing on the furniture or climbing on the kitchen work surfaces. BF agreed to these house rules and said he would make sure they understood.

Anyway, my BF spent Easter Sunday morning with me and my little boy who is 2 (different dad) but then went to his parents with his kids (6 and 8) for the rest of the day once he'd picked them up from his ex mid-morning.

Fast forward to Easter Monday and they arrive, we give them their Easter eggs and we put on the film my kids thought would be the best for all the ages.

After about 5 minutes the youngest starts doing karate and kick boxing moves in the middle of the lounge blocking everyone's view of the tv. Her dad tells her to sit down and she ignores him. I ask her to sit down, she ignores me. My kids tell her they can't see the tv and to sit down and stop jumping around. Ignored. Meanwhile her brother has ants in his pants and is bouncing on his bum on the sofa and climbing around on it. BF tells his daughter if she doesn't sit down and watch the film they will be going home. She ignores him, carries on and he does nothing. In the end we give up watching the film and I order pizza.

Everyone sits at the table for dinner. Immediate sulking from the daughter as I've sat her and her brother either side of their dad. Last time they came and sat next to my youngest they were messing about so much at the table that he started choking on his food. It was really scary and not wanting a repeat of that I insisted that the seating arrangement was different. The daughter spent most of the meal curled up on her chair crying and refusing to eat. Dad did nothing apart from say her name in an "Oh Daisy (not her real name)" kind of placating way. I was getting annoyed by this point as her brother was all over the place at the table so my daughters were getting annoyed too especially as their film was already ruined and now dinner was too. My LB finished his dinner so in order to get "Daisy" to eat I moved him round to sit next to her and lo and behold she bounces up and eats some dinner!

As soon as dinner is over my BF announces they are leaving. He had left his Easter egg from me and the kids at mine so picked it up along with theirs. His was bigger than theirs (he told me only to get them a small one as in his opinion they didn't need to be any more hyper from loads of sugar). His daughter turns to me and demands to know why her dad has got a bigger egg than her and tells me it's not fair. Maybe I shouldn't have got him a bigger one but they only did that particular egg in one size. She was really rude and I was quite taken aback. I told her not to speak to me like that and my BF just said, "Daisy!" with a look of embarrassment. He apologised but she didn't. She did something similar on her birthday complaining about the cake her dad had asked me to make for her wasn't the kind she wanted and had I got her anything else it was it just the one present. However she's only 6, I'm her dad's first girlfriend since her parents split (BF says she loves me) and therefore I didn't say anything to him about it.

So off they went home and my daughters begged me not to invite them again!

Did I handle things badly? What could I have done differently to make things better and enjoyable? How can I get my BF to understand that we all find his kids' behaviour awful? Is it unreasonable to not want them to visit us again? ?!

he lives an hour away so as it was a rare occasion when we'd both have all our kids he wanted to get together as he was over this way anyway
I know what you mean OP, but the above only works if the kids enjoy seeing /spending time with each other (they don't). I think it was for his convenience, rather than yours.

The situation sounds forced and awkward to me. If you actually want this to work, I think both of you have to be far more clever and sensitive about setting the kids up to succeed.

Your kids didn't want to have his kids over on their special celebration day with you, and why should they? His kids didn't want to sit quietly and watch a film that your kids thought was appropriate, and why should they?

I think you have to come up with a relaxed way to do something together, which is likely to work for all of the children who are present. Meeting at a nice park with a great playground, some ducks to feed, and interesting spaces to explore, on a lovely day, with a special picnic, and not having any rules about how to eat the picnic, might work. Are you near Regents Park in London or Central Park in NY?

Oh I just read your latest post, and I think you should call it a day. I think your attitude to his kids is pretty mean: "Imagine living with Daisy and Henry". That was a moment you could have talked to your daughter about his kids' good points (if you thought they had any), and you could have got your daughter onside thinking about how to create a more fun time with them. You chose to hold them up as pariahs though...

Clar they are nice kids and I like them, it's their behaviour that's awful. I've always tried to highlight their positive side as opposed to focusing on the bad behaviour but I think we've all had enough of the lack of respect and discipline and it makes us tense when they are here and not want to meet up with them which makes me feel awful.

This all sounds like too much hard work-do you really need it want extra children in your life (am counting DP here as he is a man child). No way would I want to start parenting an adult! You have to tell him to put his shoes and clothes away. Fuck that. I would be out just because of that, never mind his shit lazy parenting.

I would note, that you haven't actually given a single positive about him in any of your posts!

Msjolly I haven't out any positives because I was focusing on this one aspect. He has lots of positives but they aren't really relevant to this. For example is that he's generous with his time and will drop things to help me relevant? Or the fact he's happy to spend our time doing whatever I want to do? No.

He doesn’t sound like a great guy OP, I’m sorry. It’s shit that it’s taken this to highlight his bad points, but I don’t think his kids are the issue, I think he is. I’m a strict parent, and always follow through on threats, so I can’t abide to see parents in public count to three and then do nothing, or smile indulgently while their child sets fire to the soft play (ok, slight exaggeration!) then buy them an ice cream to shut them up when they get burnt
Aren’t you and your dc worth more than this relationship with the manipulative whining manchild? I think you are

I think you sound pretty restrictive for what should have been a fun day tbh.
I get you don’t want them jumping on the furniture but few kids would sit still watching a film they hadn’t chosen and possibly had no interest in. Do you not have a garden they could have run around in or anything else they could do? Could people not have repositioned themselves so that the tv could be seen and the lo could practice karate moves. And as for the seating plan at the table
Also not surprising that a 6 yo would comment on their dad having a bigger egg. Embarrassing yes but not surprising imo.
It seems you and your partner have very different approaches to parenting which you have managed thus far by avoiding getting the 2 families together as much as possible. I think you need to think about whether the relationship is a serious and long term prospect as anyone with children comes as a package.

Some kids don't like watching movies and will get restless, you can't force that. The rest of it sounds like a right pain though. I couldn't stand to have my time with my own children ruined like that hence I remain single.

Also not entirely sure what awful behaviour they displayed other than not being interested in a film they hadn’t been allowed to choose, getting upset about something trivial and not showing an adult-level of tact when presented with a disappointing egg!
All standard behaviour imo having worked with children of this age and having children of my own. But of course in the land of mn all children are polite and well behaved at all times. Not sure where all these perfectly behaved children are kept as I’ve never met any of them strangely enough.

Sounds like BF didn't want to spend time alone with his kids. Wanted to hook up with you and your family to give him and his kids something to do, whilst on his parenting time.
Doesn't sound like he spends that much time with them or knows what to do with his own kids.

Maybe not relevant @cheesey but does go towards how you really feel about the relationship IMO.

They were invited specifically to watch a film. Knowing how long it usually takes to choose a film, we all chose a family film before they came to save time. If their dad had known they wouldn't be interested then he shouldn't have agreed to it. They were more interested in using my lounge like a soft play centre/karate studio and he did nothing. This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened and know it's not acceptable in my house. My 2 yo tends to copy their behaviour so I speak s the next week telling him to stop climbing etc.
For the record my daughters are far from perfectly behaved but they know how to behave at peoples houses.
"Seating plan" was just a turn of phrase, nothing strict but necessary to prevent the risk of my LO choking on his dinner again.

Would it really have hurt for you to give the child a chance and say they could choose their seat but not to mess around after what happened last time?
Probably not what you want to hear but don’t your children play? All you have described is all the children being required still in front of a screen and then sit still at a table. Hardly a fun get together.
I think you just have different boundaries and your partners children sound like normal kids ime. The dad told them that climbing on furniture wasn’t acceptable in your house and from your op they didn’t do it. It sounds a bit like movement isn’t allowed either

Pork Of course my children play! And they are rarely still except for when watching tv or eating. You seem to be missing the point that they were invited specifically for a film and pizza. We pretend it's the cinema and close the curtains, turn off the lights etc and snuggle down to watch. No point putting a film on then just playing is there? You don't get up in the cinema and start climbing all over the seats or bouncing on them or doing karate in the aisle. And he wanted them sat at the table too and yes, we both expect them to sit still whilst eating. Obviously I'm being unreasonable to expect general manners.

I think you sound set in your ways and with no room for the flexibility required for children that are not you're own. I'm not criticising, I am the same, I find other people's children a real chore but as I said previously I wouldn't get into a relationship with someone who had them. It's unfair to foist your personal expectations onto other people and then criticise them heavily when they don't live up to them, especially when its children.

You tried your best. Your BF is a lazy, ineffectual parent, who can't be bothered. He didn't want to come to yours because his DD was desperate to see you, he came to yours because he wanted a free feed and someone else to look after his kids.

Not being interested in a film isn’t bad manners! And what on earth would be wrong with some children watching the film who wanted to and some playing in the garden for eg? You weren’t in a cinema where that wouldn’t be an option!
Obviously you feel strongly that your bf and his kids were the unreasonable ones so I’m not sure why you started this thread asking if you were unreasonable or if you could have done anything differently?

Msgame so should I just allow disrespectful behaviour in my own home?? Why should I expect my own children to behave but allow others to treat the house like a soft play area? They do it every time despite being politely asked the first time then more assertively told each time. This is why this visit was very specific in what it was going to involve. Free play in the house and garden has led to blinds being broken from climbing and swinging off them, to neighbours coming over because his eldest nearly skated into the main road because I was inside and BF was meant to be watching them but obviously wasn't. Oh god I'd forgotten about that one! It's not good is it. BF claims to be really embarrassed and frustrated by their behaviour but I don't see him doing anything to resolve things so maybe people are right and this just won't work.

"I was brought up being told my own view of things was unreasonable and that I was selfish so I try very hard to compromise."
This is at the heart of your problems, as I'm sure you already know. You've been groomed to always put yourself and what you want last, and that grooming kicks in big when he starts pushing your buttons.

But you didn't just put yourself last here, you also put what YOUR CHILDREN wanted last. I am not berating you for this, but pointing it out in the hope that you can use this to stiffen your resolve for next time. You have been made afraid of 'being selfish', but it is not 'selfish' to put them first. They wanted to spend time with just you, he wanted to override that, HE was the one who was selfish. Can you head off that feeling that you're putting yourself first by firmly telling yourself that no, you are putting your girls first? I do hope so.

Now, he clearly does not struggle to put himself first. He got first his parents and then you to look after his children. And he lied to you to do so.

"He told me his daughter was desperate to see me again so I felt bad saying no because the message was clear that I'd be disappointing a child as well as him and they all wanted to see us so to say no would make me unreasonable."
No she was NOT desperate to see you. He LIED, because he knows it would push your buttons ("I felt bad saying no"). This is manipulative of him, and also dismissive of what you want.

"I've tried talking to him but he says what he's doing is working"
More LIES. It clearly isn't working. You know it, his ex knows it, I expect his parents know it too.

Now look at what he actually wanted from you :

"BF was wanting to come over with his kids and join us for the day and stay overnight (nowhere for them to sleep but beside the point)"
He wanted you to parent his kids for the whole damned day and overnight. And it is not beside the point that there is nowhere for them to sleep, it is very much to the point. He was not thinking of their comfort, but of his. His comfort in getting someone else to take care of his kids. Everyone else - you, your children, his children; are to budge up and make do because then he gets to wash his hands of his responsibilities. What. A. Wanker.

"BF was upset saying we didn't want them there so I felt guilty and compromised on them coming over late afternoon for pizza and a film. No overnight stay."
Nice bit of button-pushing again, putting guilt and responsibility your way again.

"I think my BF would have been really offended and tell me I was overreacting and just needed to chill."
Hmm. Can you have thought that because he's told you this before. Maybe several times? Grooming you like you were groomed in your childhood to put yourself last? (A grooming that he is exploiting , by the way?)

You need to address how you've been groomed into compliance. It's not healthy for you, and it's not good for your daughters. Monkey see, monkey do - do you want them to grow up thinking that's how they should behave? Of course not!

Also -

"Easter monday was the only 'festive' day of the holidays that I had with my two daughters (9 and 10) as they were with their dad for the rest of it and a large portion of the school holidays itself."
Would you have wanted to spend more of the holidays with them. Did their dad push your buttons to get most of their time to himself?

He is just saying the daughter is desperate to see you to try and bully you into letting them all come over.

It's not going to work OP.

YANBU, OP. It's a parent's job to insist that their children behave in other people's homes. And not following through on threatened consequences is very poor parenting. I agree with PPs that your BF is a lazy Disney father and just didn't want to parent them on his own.

I don't think their behaviour sounds awful, really. Lots of children would get a bit restless in that situation and would also comment on the eggs.

so should I just allow disrespectful behaviour in my own home?? Why should I expect my own children to behave but allow others to treat the house like a soft play area?

No and I gave no indication whatsoever that I thought you should . Again, you and your children have your own system and ways that work well for you, maybe you just need to keep it that way. You clearly can't stand having them round unless they do exactly what you want them to, so don't. It's just making everyone stressed and miserable, mostly you. I just don't agree that it's ALL them and they're exceptionally badly behaved children.

Hi OP
In your initial post and further posts you keep making excuses for the fact you put your bf and his dc ahead of your own dc.until you accept this i don't see how you can move on.