Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

[Ghanagirl]

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

I think statements like the OP's need backing up with some evidence. I've just done a search on the names Serena Williams and Alexandra Burke going back to January 2014. I gave up on Serena after the first 20 or so threads but I would say the majority were positive towards her with no mention of colour. Glancing over the others they didn't seem to pertain to being negative towards her because of her colour, in fact again a lot were in admiration or neutral - e.g. a MIL complaining about exercising in pregnancy and Serena's name would be mentioned as someone who had without problem. The worst criticism I saw on her (granted I only could be bothered with the first 20 threads) was she said giving birth would make her a real woman - lots of "oh, so I can't have children and I'm not a real woman".

There were over 100 threads on Alexandra Burke. Again the same. There were the odd thread on race and no doubt there is the odd racist comment in there but particularly on Serena there was a lot of admiration.

If you are going to start threads like this you need to do your work. I tried to do your work but ended up not bothering as the evidence doesn't seem to be there. If it is present it. Do what I did.

There's been a few of these threads started with no foundation - just a sweeping statement. You're not convincing people that people have a problem with the names you've come up with because they are black. Again, no one seemed to have a problem with Serena although the odd person said she was rude to a linesman. I actually think you're doing more harm by shouting this out but not backing it up.

I always liked Alexandra Burke. My DC and I wanted her to win when she sang Hallelujah all those years ago. I haven't really seen her in anything since so don't know how her personality has turned out but I thought her great then.

I don't have any real opinion on Serena Williams. I think her figure is fabulous and she's done amazingly well and is in the history books.

MM I think is a phony.

None of my opinions are based on the colour of their skin.

There's racism on both sides. Black women are constantly calling white women white trash on social media sites, especially twitter.Its all bad, we are women, the colour of our skin is irrelevant.

Good points, QuackPorridgeBacon.

lizzie Being racist doesn't always involve explicitly mentioning the colour of someone's skin! It's more to do with the levels and severity of criticism directed at certain racial groups. So searching for comments like "My dislike of Serena Williams is based entirely on the colour of her skin" isn't going to get you very far

It's not fair to say (of our society) that skin colour is irrelevant either! That's patently untrue.

I genuinely don't understand this need to minimise the issue. I'm white. I believe black women when they describe their experience of racism. I don't take it as a criticism of me.

I really dislike the threads women start on here about celeb women, and am usually quite vocal in saying so. The holly Willoughby one for example, some people just love to tear her down,

But it's also the same for men but not as much, Philip scholefiled takes a lot of slack for example if I use hollies counterpart. But celeb women get it much more than men. The threads haven't been apparent for awhile as the community kept jumping on them, but as said before at one point they were prolific.

But AnxiousPeg, given those names were specifically mentioned you'd think there's be something negative - or a thread of negativity whenever these women were mentioned. But there wasn't. There was a lot positive comments (I would say overall positive or neutral in the first 20 posts) so it kind of blows what the OP is saying out the water a bit (and you). You can't just go on feelings. A lot of the threads didn't mention Serena's skin colour at all. They were positive on her figure and athleticism.

If you're going to make these accusations there needs to be something solid there.

@lizzie1970a
The amount of threads I have been on about Serena William started by racist then deleted by Mn hq is a lot. To go by the threads that stand is foolish when we know what happens to racist threads.

I haven't seen any, interestingly. I thought individual posts would be deleted but not whole threads. Any whole threads on racism should be deleted. I wonder if MN would have the figures on this. If a thread is deleted doesn't that still leave the original OP too?

If a thread is deleted doesn't that still leave the original OP too?

No. Everything vanishes into thin ether.

Some threads are just too racist to stand. From the title to the open post. Wimbledon is coming soon. There will be a few.

i want to stamp out all racism but I don't agree with this "Those who keep on asking about examples of racism must be the racist comment makers because most I have come across on Mn don't seem to notice they have done it. "

In any debate ever in the history of the world each side produces their evidence; same in any court. It is just how you prove your position to others.

I don't think it's fair to say those of asking for evidence must be the people making racist comments. I doubt I am. Instead those wanting evidence whether white or black are the sensible normal people who debate things properly surely?

Threads about which celebrity do you find good looking? - loads of white celebrities mentioned. a very recent one 3 pages on not a single black person mentioned. Sometimes the odd person comes on and says Idris Elba. Infact there was a there was one. While ago where a couple of black names popped up to be fair but overwhelmingly the preference is white people. This is actually funny, as usually go on those threads and bring up black names and photos to create a balance

The "my child is Mary in the school nativity" thread was depressing cue the description of Mary and angel Gabriel with some depressing racist stories. However, what was posted was a reflection of society's belief, racism and sexism.

So if everything vanishes unless the OP has been keeping a spreadsheet for a period of time how does she know how many threads were racist that were deleted? And also the original post from her just says horrible posts about these women, not racist ones.

Given the 2011 census says the UK population is 87% white it's not surprising MN might be the same %. 3% were black. Of course the overwhelming preference is going to be white. How is that racist?

then, I really dislike the threads women start on here about celeb women, and am usually quite vocal in saying so. The holly Willoughby one for example, some people just love to tear her down,

Nonsense, are we supposed to love all celebs then or just keep quiet and say nothing. They earn a huge amount of money, they've put themselves in the public eye, some of them are damn annoying. Why the heck shouldn't we discuss and criticise if we wish. How boring if all we did was bull them up.

Let's stop all this "tearing them down" talk, it's nothing of the sort. I hate the celebrity culture, nothing like a good celeb moan, most of them have huge egos, why should we make them any bigger. Far too many of them anyway, shouldn't even be called "celebrities". Bring em down to earth a bit i say.

I often don't even know the names of these celebrities -the price I pay for reading the FT rather than Hello I suppose. Each to their own.

Op YANBU. Some stuff on here is racist.

You don't have to pm me. I'm allowed to spend part of my weekend doing things other than responding to your troll threads on mumsnet. I don't really believe anything you've said btw and I don't believe your intentions on this thread are anything other than to rant and get a flame war going. There is a real conversation to be had about racism on MN but posters like you have no interest in anything other than getting a reaction.

Let's be clear: MN is part of society and 100% reflects its prejudice, discrimination and, yes, racism. And there is a lot of actual evidence for this racism. Not just anonymous anecdotes but peer reviewed studies chronicled in books and reports and that prove racial bias affects education, employment, socialization etc. But you don't really care about any of that. Which is why you're defaulting to a lazier form of proof that stupid internet debaters use.

Lazy online debater: Person A, you're a racist. You hate black people
Person A: What? No! I'm not a racist.
Lazy online debater: Well that proves it. Only racists would say they weren't racist.

That's what you've done on this thread. It's ridiculous and lazy and it changes nothing. Other posters have had to explain implicit bias, microaggressions and how institutional racism connects to power for you. You haven't done anything except insult other posters and do the "you're a racist and your denial only proves it" dance.

You didn't want a serious discussion of racism and how it manifests on mumsnet, you still don't and your posts have proven that. What you clearly wanted was a pointlessly hostile thread with a few posters to go back and forth with to crow about and feel better than. So alpineflowers isn't really derailing the thread, is she? I think she's helping you create exactly the thread you wanted to see. So you can drop the smelling salts.

There are a lot of other black or POC women trying to back you up on this thread because they want their experiences acknowledged but I am completely done with defending professional internet agitators who hide their narcissism and self absorption behind a social justice banner.*
I’m literally shell shocked with this post/rant
I’m honestly not sure what your point is.
I started thread as I felt a lot of Mumsnet posters had issues with women of colour.
To be clear I’m black British both of my parents are from the carribean but I was born in Uk.
I’m unsure why you’re so angry with me and not the posters making racist comments, completely bizarre...

Last message I posted was trying to reply to
saiya06 but didn’t seem to go through.
In reply to saiya06
I’m honestly not sure what you’re talking about as you seem to think racism is an issue but because I’ve started this thread I’m part of the problem plus you don’t believe I’m black🤔
I’m sorry that you’re so angry, not sure what else to say.

Ok, I haven't read all of the thread.

But I am a disabled person (white by the way) and I'm sometimes shocked by the casual disablism expressed on Mumsnet. On ocasions when I've objected I've been told, "No you are wrong, that is absolutely not disablist", when to me it absolutely is.

So, based on my experience, I can well believe that a black person could experience racism on here, without it being obvious to the white majority.

Okay but with black women it seems relentless and personal

It's jealousy. No more...no less.

Sort of get OP point. Ds went to a hugely multicultural school.

Governors white. It was ‘whoop whoop’look at us. people so very very proud of their multiculturalism and their anti racism but on their own terms.

saiya06
I’m unsure why your vitriol is aimed towards another black woman (yes I’m definitely black and quite happy to share a pic of my beautiful black face with HQ if you need proof.
My Op was about Mumsnet posters having issues with black women.
Honestly not sure why you’re directing your vitriol towards me.
And to reiterate I’m Black British with carribean parents and my husband is GHAHNIAN!!

You clearly stated that you view mumsnet (as a whole) as racist. You then tell people they are racist when they have said they are not. It’s hard to believe many things on the internet, but you accused many posters of being racist with no actual proof. Mumsnet is a forum, it cannot be racist. So, do you believe that everyone on mumsnet is racist? If not, then report the racist posts when you see them and they will be removed. Unfortunately you cannot stop people typing such hateful stuff but you can report and eat it removed. What exactly do you want to happen?

My Op was about Mumsnet posters having issues with black women.

So, is it all posters? Including black posters?

Or a subset of posters?

What about the posters who have no issues with black women? Or even like most black women? Are they invisible, or do you assume they're all black?

What do you think should be done? Stricter guidelines? More deletions?

The OP's comments and those of quencher remind me of the exhausing conversations I of have with men who deny sexism exists "I respect women so all men do these days" Women can be firefighters and prime ministers so there's no sexism any more", that kind of thing. It's tiresome being asked to constantly produce evidence of something that has been experienced personally all my life.