Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

[Ghanagirl]

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

Alpineflowers you're clutching so bad it's embarrassing.

FWIW not all the abused girls were white (certainly not in Rochdale, where I'm from).

Lweji- It doesn't tally with acknowledging different ethnic backgrounds

You need to go back and read my posts, especially before that one post you keep quoting (still not sure what point you are making there anyway)

As I said, I have repeatedly posted about how complicated it is and how there are many different ethnic groups

I don't recall saying they weren't victims of racism.

The constant reference to those cases on this thread is confusing the issue though. How is that particular racism the same as the racism that the op is complaining of.

As to comparing the issues that BME people face to a white curry chef trying to get a job in a curry house - that's just insulting.

GorgeousJaws' Alpineflowers you're clutching so bad it's embarrassing

If you are going to resort to personal abuse, then I don't think I can be bothered to reply anymore jaws

No I have never noticed overt racism on MN, since you could all be black, white, pink, orange and I would never know.

What I have noticed however is a distinct hatred of Mothers who stay at home and as someone who has lived and worked in a predominantly Indian-Asian area where it is completely normal for Mothers to stay at home m, then I won't say it hasn't crossed my mind that MN is a place where white middle class women can make their claim to superiority.

It's the only place where people can undermine those who have either been bit. Into or chosen a different life to the one they have.

findingmyfeet12 -I don't recall saying they weren't victims of racism.

No but other posters have

The constant reference to those cases on this thread is confusing the issue though.

To be fair, I can see what you are getting at here but i was replying to posters who stated that white people cannot be victims of racism

How is that particular racism the same as the racism that the op is complaining of.As to comparing the issues that BME people face to a white curry chef trying to get a job in a curry house - that's just insulting.

It isn't. I wasn't comparing a chef with the OP, I was giving an example of discrimination in an ethnic neighbourhood.

This shouts ..

I AM GOING TO PROVOKE OTHER WOMEN SO THAT I CAN POST MY OUTRAGE WITH A SCREEN SHOT ON TWITTER SO I CAN GO VIRAL!
I suggest getting a new hobby.

koyaanisqatsi - According to who?

According to England and Wales police statistics

That is actually currently a topic of hot debate. White supremacists certainly do not consider ANY Jewish person to be white, regardless of skin colour or ethnic origin. I know a lot of Ashkenazim who don't consider themselves white.

You think the attacks on Jews in the UK are by white people?

The history of how race is constructed and controlled is very interesting. According to the official racial categories laid out by the US Census Bureau, "white" is anyone of European or Middle Eastern descent. In practice how many Americans would look at a Middle Eastern person and think 'white'? The same is true for Hispanic people. I read an article recently by a Spanish woman saying in Europe she's considered white and in the US she's considered non-white (even though according to US census legally she is white). The US Supreme Court has literally held cases to decide what someone's race is and whether they qualify as white or not.

All very interesting but this thread is not really about the USA, it is I think more about the UK. The OP is British

Anyway a person might be officially classified as white, yet perceived by a racist as non-white. Which I suppose is a vaguely interesting philosophical point, but in practice: if a white supremacist attacks you because they believe you're non-white, then surely by definition that is a racially-motivated attack? It's certainly not by any stretch an anti-white attack.

Not sure I understand

Whites are about 90% of the population
If they experience "nearly half" the racial attacks, then the non-white 10% experience more than half
So proportionately POC are more than 5 times as likely as whites to be victims of racial attacks

You think the attacks on Jews in the UK are by white people?

In many cases, yes, they are.

BigChocFrenzy -Whites are about 90% of the population. If they experience "nearly half" the racial attacks, then the non-white 10% experience more than half. So proportionately POC are more than 5 times as likely as whites to be victims of racial attacks.

Only if you assume that the racist attacks on non white people are

1. Only on black people
2. All carried out by white people

Somebody asked a while back what the point of the OP was (as, I think, this poster was cross about the idea that racism might be present even if she couldn't spot it).

I would say that the point of the OP was to get people to think about something they usually just skim over. Yes, it might seem a bit goady, but another way of looking at it is that it takes a bit of a prod to get people out of their comfort zones. I think that's definitely happened here.

I think a reasonable sort of response from people who don't immediately agree would be things like "I was not aware of this - please explain" .

Instead, we had instant offence-taking (from people who had the gall to call the OP 'professionally offended!) and a 20 page thread culminating in all the convoluted ways a white person might encounter race-based discrimination.

If there were an award for the most brazen whataboutery...

Ah now you see I am half Jewish, not Jewish because the line is through my father. His father was German/Polish, his mother Spanish/Portugese.

My MIL has been known to say things like "he's such a Jew" about people who are mean. I pick her up on it but I don't think she means to be racist. She is just stupid and ignorant as only a former deputy primary head can be. Do you see what I did there in the context of generalisation and idiocy?

I have heard and been the butt of many jokes about "front wheels". I could let it upset me but that would be pointless and those jokes, whilst inappropriate, were never meant in a racist way. I truly believe there was humour there and the people making them, had their been some sort of attack, would have linked arms before me.

koyaanisqatsi-So not actual Jewish people then. Since when were Welsh police the ultimate arbiters of racial identity?

Yes actual British Jewish people, many of them came to England in the Victorian period. Their ancestors were escaping the pogroms in the east of Europe
The statistics that were posted in the link were from police stats. The police force is England and Wales (Scotland and NI have a different police force and system of law)

I know that they are. And statistics confirm this. Plus antisemitism is one of the cornerstones of white supremacy.

They are not by white people. England has a large Muslim ethnic minority population, if that helps to explain it

Don't be disengenous. The point is the same regardless of country; it's simply easier to find specific examples in the USA

It is not 'the same' because the UK does not have the same history of slavery, lynching, Jim Crow laws and segregation as the USA

I really don't know how to make it any simpler for you. If a white supremacist decides they want to go and find a person of X ethnicity to beat up because they hate X ethnicity, then that is racially-motivated. That is literally the definition of racially motivated. The fact their victim might not "identify" as being X is not relevent. The fact they were targeted because the person believed they were X is what's relevent.

Are you saying that a white person cannot be a victim of a supremacist/nationalist/religious extremist of a non white ethnicity?

Alpineflowers
So you think it’s acceptable that my primary aged twins were called monkeys?
You’ve glossed over the point I made to assert you’re opinion.
Have you or your children been racially abused in public?
If not please don’t say you’ve suffered racism

They are not by white people. England has a large Muslim ethnic minority population, if that helps to explain it

Do you have evidence to back this up? (and not just a vague reference to “England and Wales police statistics” please...)

Why are people going to such great lengths to try to show that white people can be the victims of racial abuse?

I don't agree with the op about mn but this thread is making me change mind.

I'm out.

Ghanagirl -So you think it’s acceptable that my primary aged twins were called monkeys?

Of course it isn't acceptable, it's disgusting and quite rightly a criminal offence. It is especially revolting that the victims of this racist abuse were children

You’ve glossed over the point I made to assert you’re opinion.Have you or your children been racially abused in public? If not please don’t say you’ve suffered racism

Yes my children have been victims of racism, on more than one occasion. One of my children was attacked in the street and suffered broken teeth in a racist attack
I also know someone who almost died in a vicious and sustained attack by a gang of Pakistanis

Ghanagirl

You keep referencing this despicable thing which happened to you and your children (and it WAS despicable, horrendously racist and AWFUL!) but it is NOT proof of racism on MN! You were asked to provide examples so people could understand what you mean, but you have not provided any. Another poster wrote a huge thread about examples of racism she has seen on here, which seems to suggest yes there IS racism on here. However as the OP you could or should have done the same. I don't think that the actual examples given by you e.g people don't like a few famous people who happen to be black = RACISM, are reasonable without some sort of quotes to support this. If someone doesn't like Megan Markle it does not automatically make them racist.

I am also confused as to how you could say a white person couldn't be a victim of racism because they aren't a minority. Firstly, I don't agree with this assertion, but secondly what if they go to a country where they ARE a minority? Could they be a victim then by your definition of racism?

Mumto2two
I never said anything about subliminal racism it was another Mumsnettter.
Plus the fact you think it’s just a sad fact of life that my innocent children were racially abused let’s me know exactly how you think.
I’m sure you would be upset if your children were abused due to just being themselves.
You’re determined to place your head in the sand or maybe you are racist because every point you’ve made is blaming me for noticing racism or being thin skinned whilst my self and children abused by white man who was much bigger than me and we did nothing wrong apart from existing!!

SoupyNorman -Do you have evidence to back this up? (and not just a vague reference to “England and Wales police statistics” please...)

If you have been following the news there have been a number of attacks on Jewish people by Muslims, to such an extent that some Jewish people have moved out of inner city London.

(I know this next example is in France) Muslim terrorists targeted a Jewish kosher shop in 2015, four people lost their lives. It is well known that Muslim extremists/terroroists in Europe often proclaim a hatred of Jews