Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

[Ghanagirl]

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

I think it is encumbent on all of us to examine our beliefs and our in-built bias. Plenty of men would be horrified at the suggestion that they hold misogynistic views, and yet...

It's not really enough just to proclaim "I'm not racist." Especially when someone who suffers racism and sees it all the time is trying to tell you I see racism here. It's not enough to say "You're wrong" and then in the next breath protest that you, categorically, hold not one even slightly racist bias.

It behoves us all to listen. I have learnt about my own prejudices from MN.

Lweji-So, you've totally missed this one?koyaanisqatsi Sun 15-Apr-18 21:17:07'

No, in fact I acknowledged it and quoted part of it in a reply

AnxiousPeg I think it is encumbent on all of us to examine our beliefs and our in-built bias. Plenty of men would be horrified at the suggestion that they hold misogynistic views, and yet...It's not really enough just to proclaim "I'm not racist." Especially when someone who suffers racism and sees it all the time is trying to tell you I see racism here. It's not enough to say "You're wrong" and then in the next breath protest that you, categorically, hold not one even slightly racist bias. It behoves us all to listen. I have learnt about my own prejudices from MN.

I couldn't agree more with this, and this has in fact been my point all along. It saddens me though that that when someone, black white or whatever, says that they have been a victim of racism, they are disbelieved, made fun of even

There's racism everywhere sadly. We should be challenging it more when it comes up on here.
The amount of people telling the OP she's making it up proves her point! You aren't listening to a WOC telling you she's seeing racism you are telling her she's crazy instead..

no i don't agree
trans women yes

moreofaslummythanyummy
What a ridiculous comment, and why shout?
I’m not even on Twitter

However for everything the evidence is a key thing as I am sure everyone agrees. So if something is said which feels like racism or sexism or anti working or upper class or something then we need to speak out so others realise the impact their words are having and people can discuss if that thing itself is or is not racist or whatever. It all comes down to evidence and proof at the end of the day and yes there is definitely racism and sexism around in lots of places on and off line. I don't feel MN itself is particularly racist though as most of us have no idea what colour people are and we are mostly chatting about issues like schools and babies' health and colour does not come into that very much.

Xenia
Colour doesn’t come into it for you maybe.

ghanagirl

You don't have to pm me. I'm allowed to spend part of my weekend doing things other than responding to your troll threads on mumsnet. I don't really believe anything you've said btw and I don't believe your intentions on this thread are anything other than to rant and get a flame war going. There is a real conversation to be had about racism on MN but posters like you have no interest in anything other than getting a reaction.

Let's be clear: MN is part of society and 100% reflects its prejudice, discrimination and, yes, racism. And there is a lot of actual evidence for this racism. Not just anonymous anecdotes but peer reviewed studies chronicled in books and reports and that prove racial bias affects education, employment, socialization etc. But you don't really care about any of that. Which is why you're defaulting to a lazier form of proof that stupid internet debaters use.

Lazy online debater: Person A, you're a racist. You hate black people
Person A: What? No! I'm not a racist.
Lazy online debater: Well that proves it. Only racists would say they weren't racist.

That's what you've done on this thread. It's ridiculous and lazy and it changes nothing. Other posters have had to explain implicit bias, microaggressions and how institutional racism connects to power for you. You haven't done anything except insult other posters and do the "you're a racist and your denial only proves it" dance.

You didn't want a serious discussion of racism and how it manifests on mumsnet, you still don't and your posts have proven that. What you clearly wanted was a pointlessly hostile thread with a few posters to go back and forth with to crow about and feel better than. So alpineflowers isn't really derailing the thread, is she? I think she's helping you create exactly the thread you wanted to see. So you can drop the smelling salts.

There are a lot of other black or POC women trying to back you up on this thread because they want their experiences acknowledged but I am completely done with defending professional internet agitators who hide their narcissism and self absorption behind a social justice banner.

I don't feel MN itself is particularly racist though

I really wish white people would stop spouting this crap! You are white, which makes you blind and oblivious to the insidious nature of it. You are part of the problem. Its your biases and prejudices!
Stop bloody telling black people you don't think there is particularly any racism.

At least you've acknowledged there is some racism, guess that's alright then.

saiya06-'...I think she's helping you create exactly the thread you wanted to see...'

If that's true, it wasn't my intention!

OP, girl- YANBU.
Just add Beyonce, Rihanna and Nicki Minaj to the list.
Any topic about these women will get MNers reaching for their keyboards just so they can put in their ugly racist 2 cents!

The Kardashian girls are hated mainly because of their association with black men, the list goes and on.

saiya06- Wow! what a low blow! If you have NOT walked in OUR shoes, do not try to speak on our behalf.

milliesmaller

RTFT, I'll speak for myself as a Black British Nigerian. It was pretty obvious to me the OP wasn't ghanian. Of course, you're happy to dismiss the real problem of digital blackface (white people pretending to be black online in order to ferment racial discord) when it suits you.

www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/03/21/520522240/the-emergence-of-the-white-troll-behind-a-black-face

Frankly, I would guess that when it comes to actual grassroots activism in the diaspora my record would embarrass the records of every single person on this thread. But of course, the only real currency that is accepted anymore is online posturing by childish attention seekers.

saiya06 My very sincere apologies.
So OP, are you black? or just trying to cause drama?

Anna, I don't think I've said what my colour is actually. My only point is I have not seen evidence of much racism on MN. I am happy to consider cust and pastes or links to posts which are racist. For me is it all about the evidence.

I don't think most people do sit here thinking okay we are talking about how to feed the baby - so will that be a white or black baby. it's just not relevant behind a screen. It might be relevant on a thread about whether it is class or race that holds certain back in careers in medicine or journalism or something like that but even there I have not seen much racism on here.

However I am always happy to consider evidence. If I use older or the wrong words about things I am more than used to my teenagers giving me a verbal kicking - one is an equalities officer so very down with the trends as it were.

saiya60 You seem to be hedging your argument on the fact that the OP is not Ghanian. That is frankly bizarre. She has said that she isn't and has said she is of Caribbean descent and mixed in origin.

I agree with much of your post this morning at 9:46am:

Let's be clear: MN is part of society and 100% reflects its prejudice, discrimination and, yes, racism. And there is a lot of actual evidence for this racism. Not just anonymous anecdotes but peer reviewed studies chronicled in books and reports and that prove racial bias affects education, employment, socialization etc.

But if the discussion is solely based on MN then I can say that I've never seen anyone using explicitly crude racist language but I have come across a lot of insidious racism and prejudice oft dressed up as ignorance.

I mentioned the golliwog threads that appear every so often. On more than one occasion someone has tried to defend their use of speech as not racist e.g. saying that tonight they're "going to the local chinky" - that is racist as fuck. And whenever the Meghan threads were going on someone would always say that "she just doesn't seem suitable, she doesn't look the part." Those are just a couple of examples based on MN.

I don't think any reasonable person would deny that racism is alive and kicking in wider society. Across Europe the far right has seen a massive surge in influence but that's not what we're talking about here is it.

When you say:

That's what you've done on this thread. It's ridiculous and lazy and it changes nothing. Other posters have had to explain implicit bias, microaggressions and how institutional racism connects to power for you. You haven't done anything except insult other posters and do the "you're a racist and your denial only proves it" dance.

It's entirely your prerogative if you feel the OP hasn't proffered intelligent debate and is only stoking the fire but I think any race discussion can only be for the greater good. It's important for people to see the ugly naked truth, whether or not they believe it is up to them.

I do think the basic premise of the thread; it's title was lurching toward goadyism "AIBU to think Mumsnet has issues with black women" - this most definitely would have put some people's backs up from the off. MN is not a hive mind but in the main the thread is still standing without many deletions so seemingly we've managed to have a mostly sensible discussion.

AnnaHindrer-I really wish white people would stop spouting this crap! You are white, which makes you blind and oblivious to the insidious nature of it. You are part of the problem. Its your biases and prejudices!

Oh the irony of someone accusing others of racism and then attributing certain negative characteristics to the colour of someones skin.

Replace the word 'white' in your post with 'black'. Would that be acceptable Anna?

Oh Alpine for god's sake.

Good point, Alpineflowers. This thread is a case study of the aphorism "if you have a hammer you treat everything like a nail".

Can see why Reni Eddo Lodge said she was no longer talking to white people about race!

And before you come out with the astounding rhetorical masterstroke - 'what if she said she was no longer talking to black people aaaaaah' - you missed the point.

Alpine That isn't really fair. You can't just switch 'black' and 'white' and act as if it's a neutral comparison in UK society.

I've not RTFT but Michele Obama has been complimented on here and over and over. Being black and American surely should have done her in on Mumsnet. I believe her "They go low. We go high" quite was used on the feminism board a few days back.

Mumsnet in general is fairly critical. I don't think it's disproportionately aimed at black women though. All the royals get a rough ride. MM happens to be mixed race. She wouldn't have had an easier ride on here if she was White I don't think.

President Obama never got much slagging on here, whereas Trump??

That isn't really fair.

Actually, it is fair. It is the shoe being on the other foot.