Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

[Ghanagirl]

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

Meghan Markle is black? Really? Well that escaped my notice.

Here here, Anna.

When I saw this thread, I thought wow, probably shame on me this isn't something I've been aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's so, and would like to hear more.

And immediately, the thread is full of people telling OP she's chippy, she makes problems for herself, she's a racist for thinking about skin colour, they have no idea what she could be talking about....

I haven't ever noticed racism at work, but if a black colleague said she had, I'd assume she had reason to and I'd want to hear about it. I wouldn't just shut her down and say no, you're chippy and you're making problems where none exist. I feel like that's the sort of thing a racist would say, tbh.

On the subject of black people being racist - Of course black people can be racist. What I think the poster who said ^they lack the power to be racist’ means is, when racism and power and combined it has a potent effect on it’s victims. So for example a racist white employer is powerful, because they are in charge of recruitment.

A black person can be racist but unless they have the power and authority to act in a racist way to affect the lives of those they are prejudiced against, they will remain closed racists. The fact that most positions of authority and power are not held by black people, make their own prejudices quite minimal. But of course, they can be quietly racist in their own small way.

I think mumsnet can be a bit weird about race- for example I recently noticed it on a thread about a particular uni that has been in the news a lot due to racism. I pointed out that the uni had a typical "type" of student go to it and people got very offended that I'd implied that upper-middle class white people can be racist and exclusionary.

As a white person I do feel a bit awkward commenting about these issues, but I do think there are some people on mumsnet (and in society in general) who get very defensive about these things.

Also bumblenbean WTF is heterophobia?

it seems a bit hypocritical to then dismiss those who say they've never seen racism on mn.

Or never noticed? Just because people can't see it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
As a white person, I will have to assume that I miss many offensive comments that a black person will notice.

If the OP has seen it, noticed and felt it, why would I say I never saw it? What's the point?

I only disagree with the OP that it's not the whole of MN and that it's naive to think MN would be free from racism, as well as any other point of view.
As a forum, there is a concern to remove racist (as well as other offensive) posts, not only by MNHQ but also pps in general.

Jesus Christ, and immediately Anna posts that really helpful and illuminating post (lots of things I hadn't thought of, as a white woman), she's pulled up for thinking of race in terms of black and white!

People's resistance to considering the ways in which their thinking and their assumptions might be up for revision is astounding.

Finding - I didn’t say they were hypocritical. I find it funny because the only reason you would not notice is simply because they are white. Again some posters have mentioned the male/female sexism effect where men say they have not noticed XYZ, even then a poster popped up and asked what’s the comparison between the two?

I disagreed with the op that mn is racist but I did accept that as a reflection of a large proportion of society there is bound to be some racism.

I'm from an ethnic minority too and I've never seen racism on mn. Why should I accept the op's assertion that mn has issues with black women? I'm happy to accept that there is racism here but I won't go above that to call it a racist forum.

uberqueen-This isn't a wave , sorry.The number isn't in 1000s . By conflating it , you are deliberately inciting a particular mood and creating a false impression. The total figure was around 1500. Why have you chosen to write 'thousands?'?

The number is in the tens of thousands.
This has not just happened in one town (Rotherham 1,600 victims), it has happened in dozens of towns/cities. There have been dozens of court cases, dozens of gangs already convicted and there are many more court cases due

A 'wave' is, for example, when you enslave an entire continent over several hundreds of years.

What do you mean by 'enslave an entire continent'?
If you mean when Africa was colonised by the British, that happened in the mid to late Victorian period, after the slave trade had been abolished. It was the British who were the first country to end it by force of arms (Royal Navy)
Personally I haven't 'enslaved' anyone and neither did any of my ancestors. The vast majority of white people in this country? their ancestors didn't enslave anyone either. The British labouring class of 186 years ago, when slavery in the West Indies was finally abolished, was a huge demographic, they lived in poverty, they did not have the vote, they owned nothing and had gained nothing from slavery.

Rotherham's events weren't indicative of the status quo across the globe or throughout history. How narrow minded , short sighted and misleading

Yes, lets lecture the working class victims in Rotherham etc, the descendants of coal miners and steel labourers, about 'the status quo across the globe or throughout history'. I'm sure that will make them feel much better about it all. Say to them 'hey, but a group of rich merchants and traders, both white and black, way back in history enslaved people, think yourself lucky'? . Is that how it works?

Jesus Christ, and immediately Anna posts that really helpful and illuminating post (lots of things I hadn't thought of, as a white woman), she's pulled up for thinking of race in terms of black and white!

If that is meant for my post, it was aimed at Alpine, not Anna.

I agree with Anna's posts.

Lweji I'm really sorry - I saw a couple of posts together at the bottom of the last page that appeared in the time it took to write my first response - and I think I conflated the 'what about heterophobia' (???) with your post. Genuine apologies - that was sloppy reading, because I felt cross at what seemed like an immediate shutting-down of what Anna was explaining.

I almost think it would be helpful to have a distinction between racism (the dislike of/prejudice against a particular ethnic group) and Racism (the systemic/societal oppression of a particular ethnic group) as well as the same for sexism and Sexism.

In the UK, whilst it's possible for people from ethnic minorities to be prejudiced against other ethnic groups, it's not possible for them to be involved in systemic discrimination against another ethnic group. I think this is where the confusion arises when someone says "A black woman (or other BME person) can't be racist".

I also think the huge amount of chippy-ness and unwillingness to listen to people's lived experiences is quite telling.

I think the Rotherham and Telford cases are misleading to use in the context of this thread and the op.

The op is talking about issues with black women and in relation to this forum and the way we conduct ourselves during the chat.

It's totally misleading to keep bringing up the Rotherham cases.

Before the grammar police pop up, I’ve seen all the errors in my posts but I think you get what I’m trying to say. Thank you.

Lweji-While ignoring all sorts of ethnic backgrounds.

I have done the opposite of that.
In my initial post , I pointed out that the issues are complicated by the many different ethnic backgrounds in this country. I have repeatedly made that point in my posts

It's totally misleading to keep bringing up the Rotherham cases.

Yes. It's like a fall back by certain people, regardless of context. But Rotherham!!!

@Alpine
The number of anti-semetic attacks are only 'part' of overall attacks on white people. North European Jews are actually classed as white anyway. Many Jews in this country are not dark skinned

You were saying?

In that case I'm at a loss as to why the op has started a thread arguing "AIBU".

The op has seen or perceived the racism, if I have't but that's immaterial.

We are to simply accept that op is not BU. End of argument.

findingmyfeet-I think the Rotherham and Telford cases are misleading to use in the context of this thread and the op.The op is talking about issues with black women and in relation to this forum and the way we conduct ourselves during the chat.It's totally misleading to keep bringing up the Rotherham cases.

But an argument has been repeatedly made by some posters that white women/people cannot be victims of racism. The replies about Rotherham etc, were refuting that argument

Lweji-You were saying?

Not sure what you mean by this?

We are talking about racism in everyday life that disadvantages people when it comes to finding jobs and accessing education.

The Rotherham cases are about predators seeking out a particular, vulnerable group, to abuse. It's totally different. Those girls were vulnerable white girls, not just white girls.

The op's argument is about black women as a group defined by only their colour and not class or vulnerability.

@Alpine

I have done the opposite of that.
In my initial post , I pointed out that the issues are complicated by the many different ethnic backgrounds in this country. I have repeatedly made that point in my posts

The number of anti-semetic attacks are only 'part' of overall attacks on white people. North European Jews are actually classed as white anyway. Many Jews in this country are not dark skinned

Which is it, then?

How do you classify anti-semitic as anti-white? Not sure what you were saying there. It doesn't tally with acknowledging different ethnic backgrounds.

findingmyfeet12

In many multi ethnic towns/cities being a victim of racism is a problem for white people as well as for other ethnicities. A white youth who lives in a majority ethnic area could also experience 'everyday racism' and 'disadvantage'. He may not be able to get a job in the area or rent a home because of discrimination. For example, a white chef trying to get a job in a curry house in Bradford might struggle, or rent a house when the majority of landlords are not white.

In inner city London, what is the ethnic demographic for young people, under the age of 25 for example and are the majority in that age group even white?

The girls in Rotherham were not all vulnerable, many, if not most, were from good homes. They were targeted because they were white. They were called racist names while they were being abused because they were white. They were also women being 'defined only by their colour'. Or are you saying they weren't victims of racism?