Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

[Ghanagirl]

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

You mean this:

www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race

the 24 white victims also included those who were Jewish, 'dark-skinned' Europeans or gypsies.
In addition, seven of those were killed by white attackers,
four by black, six by Asian,
with seven whose racial background was not identified.

I'm not sure.
I think Megan Markle would come in for stick what ever her colour.
It's not that long ago since Prince Harry would certainly be discouraged from marrying her, but that would have been the case if she were white.
I'm glad we have moved on and he has been allowed to marry her, and yes he would've had to seek permission.
As for Alexandra Burke I quite like her. I know she was slated by some on strictly come dancing but in my opinion women in general get a much harder time in there. I can tell you categorically that the winner, Joe was not technically the best dancer, that Debbie McGee was but I knew he would win.

I do agree about the abuse both Williams sisters get, it vile. I believe it is linked to the abuse most women sporting stars get, they have it harder because they are both female and black. They are amazing though.

Racial murders: nearly half the victims are white

So by ‘nearly half’ you actually mean less than half?

I don't really want to get Involved inthis for obvious reasons, but to save another bun fight, I understand things like anti semitism and crimes against certain nationalities like polish immigrants come under the banner of white racial hate/crimes when the statistics are correlated. Rightly or wrongly, but I think that's how they are correlated. Like any other race hate crime, there are a multitude of sub sections to a given high level "umbrella grouping".

Yes that's it. Thank you
'Racial murders: Nearly Half of all Victims are White'

callies assuming your comment was directed at me ... it’s a fairly straightforward question. To me , from some of her comments the OP seems to be framing racism as something that is purely demonstrated by white people against black people. I am curious as to whether this is indeed her view. I’m not trying to make some kind of competitive claim. It’s not an either / or. Nor am I suggesting that there is insidious / subliminal racism against white people to the same extent. But I still think it’s a valid question.

Sure, I agree, it's not about skin colour, just simply I think it's classified as that when you look,at the statistics, which is why they seem high.

koyaanisqatsi- Well, exactly. An antisemetic or anti-Polish attack is a hate crime but it’s certainly not an “anti-white” hate crime. White supremacists and racists would never consider a Jewish person to be white anyway, regardless of their skin tone or country of origin.

But this works both ways doesn't it?
Not all black victims of hate crimes are victims of white racists. A black Jamaican can be a victim of racism from a black African or a Pakistani or other non white perpatrators, and vice versa.
As the senior police officer in the linked article explains, white working class boys are victims of racism and hate crimes too, but this gets less attention

the 24 white victims also included those who were Jewish, 'dark-skinned' Europeans or gypsies. In addition, seven of those were killed by white attackers, four by black, six by Asian, with seven whose racial background was not identified.

As predicted.
In addition, there are small numbers.

I'll also add that the problems with racism are so much more than murder. It affects people in many ways throughout their lives.

And from the Guardian article:
"The report suggested that white people might also be more likely to report a crime such as a street robbery carried out by a black person as a racial incident."

I'm shocked by this thread.

The OP didn't say anything remotely controversial, surely? Given that black women are subject to a double-whammy of prejudice in our society, it's fairly likely that there is a reflection of that state of affairs on MN?

She didn't say MN attitudes were worse than general societal ones. Just implied that she'd like to think somewhere with MN's credentials might be better at not displaying those depressing attitudes.

I'm disgusted at all the people jumping on OP and getting all huffy about an uncomfortable truth. Grow up.

I'm white. I don't get all offended if someone points out that, all other things being equal, black women get judged more harshly than white women. Because it's a fact.

This thread is a disgrace. And not because of OP.

koyaanisqatsi -Yes of course, but using antisemetic attacks as evidence of some kind of anti-white racism is pretty despicable.

Who has done that?
The number of anti-semetic attacks are only 'part' of overall attacks on white people. North European Jews are actually classed as white anyway. Many Jews in this country are not dark skinned

I’ve yet to see evidence of a wave of people being attacked specifically for being white.

Thousands of white girls were targeted for rape, forced prostitution, torture, trafficking, and even in some cases murder, precisely because they were white. In towns like Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford etc (there are too many towns to list). They also suffered racial abuse while these crimes were being committed

Racism is a concept inherently predicated on an oppressive social system based on a power imbalance.

There was certainly a power imbalance regarding the above victims, because the services covered it up. An oppressive system of political correctness was to blame for the crimes not being prosecuted

Racism is an absolutely toxic evil that runs through our entire history and culture on a fundamental level. Claiming white people suffer racism too because on time someone called you honky is to be woefully ignorant of what systemic racist structures are.

Racism is toxic and evil I agree.
If two black youths beat up a white youth and called him a 'honky', that is a racially aggravated assault. Just calling someone a honky is racist abuse.

How would you feel if every single debate about any feminist issue was invaded by men talking about how misandry is just as bad because one time a woman was rude to him?

It is irrelevant how I feel and I don't understand your comparison

The disingenuous citing of racially aggravated crime statistics is just like NAMALTing.

I've not seen some of the posts mentioned however I remember reading a post on here about Meghan Markle "tainting" the pure blood of the Royals. Can't see how that could be construed as anything other than racist really. I think the racist posters on here are few and far between generally, and mumsnet hss always been zero tolerance towards racism. However, if you have experienced racism then you look for it subconsciously and get confirmation bias every time you see negativity as another example of racism

callies
Yes this black, asian and mixed race women are a minority, therefore lacking power to be racist.
I also acknowledge that working class white have problems also.
My post was from the perspective of black woman who grew in a white working class environment.
I’m now middle class due to going to university and marrying someone who comes from wealthy background but I still think women of colour are shouted down in RL and on Mumsnet.
The fact that you disagree doesn’t make my point invalid.

White women

Going to university doesn’t make you middle class. Marrying someone wealthy doesn’t make you m/c either.
But that’s another thread altogether

Thousands of white girls were targeted for rape, forced prostitution, torture, trafficking, and even in some cases murder, precisely because they were white. In towns like Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford etc (there are too many towns to list).*

This isn't a wave , sorry.

The number isn't in 1000s . By conflating it , you are deliberately inciting a particular mood and creating a false impression. The total figure was around 1500. Why have you chosen to write 'thousands?'?

A 'wave' is, for example, when you enslave an entire continent over several hundreds of years.
Rotherham's events weren't indicative of the status quo across the globe or throughout history. How narrow minded , short sighted and misleading .

You make a very interesting point there ghanagirl. I wonder if your perception is due to being working class originally as well. Class isn't a protected characteristic but lots of sociologists are producing work to indicate that it's the big thing that holds people back.

A on another here criticised MM as not an “English Rose”, when she was pulled up on several posters waded to defend her saying English Rose doesn’t mean not black. I suppose you could be black and still be thought of as an English Rose .

Sometimes it’s not just the fact you don’t like certain people it’s the actual comments about them that sets them that’s makes a black person go e.g MM and Harry just don’t look right together.

There were lots of criticisms about the other BUT No one ever said that about Harry and Cressida or Chelsy.

People must also realise that there are a lot fewer black people in high positions or in the positive limelight than white. When a person criticises Katie Hopkins et al for everyone one of them, there are about a gazillion positive white female and male role models, in positions of authority, or excelling in their field. So the criticism doesn’t bite quite so hard. When you only have a few, they are precious.before the Williams sisters, think, when last was there a black tennis player? Never mind a top ranking one. The only one I can remember is Arthur Ashe. Sadly He died many yrs ago. Since then, I haven’t seen any at Wimbledon or anywhere else.

When the Williams sisters whizzed onto the courts black people were obviously ecstatic. They had worked extremely hard all their lives to get there and to win their championships. The racists were determined not to like them but you can’t silence excellence! So when people on MN people come on and say ‘ I don’t like her because she’s smug‘ of course black people get annoyed. It is not the same as having ago at Kerry Katona. Same with Michelle Obama, excellent woman! and role model not just for black women but dare I say WHITES as well.

Some one asked how we can know the demographic on MN. Easy! yes we don’t have numbers true, so we can’t quantify but through years of observation, one can deduce the following:

My guess is that most on this thread are white. I know most on MN are white. Why?

I’ve been on MN for quite a few yrs,

Threads about getting rid of unwanted hairs, long chin hairs etc - Not something the average black person worries about or has to deal with it.

Threads about going on holiday - sun tan lotion. I know black people should use sun tan lotion as well, but they talk about it a lot less.

Threads with the poster asking is Yorkshire would be a good place to move to as she is BME, cue people asking what’s that got to do with anything? You’re imagining things.

Threads about hairstyles, how should I style my hair? - cue lots of posters posting pictures of white people with various hair styles even though the OP hasn’t said she is white.

Threads about which celebrity do you find good looking? - loads of white celebrities mentioned. a very recent one 3 pages on not a single black person mentioned. Sometimes the odd person comes on and says Idris Elba . Infact there was a there was one. While ago where a couple of black names popped up to be fair but overwhelmingly the preference is white people.

Threads on educational achievement - Poster pops up and airily declares , ‘‘figures show children from XYZ are high attainers’ and that’s good for her children. But black children, have the lowest IQ in the world and that’s a fact! I question this further and poster again staTes the same thing. Apart from completely lacking in self awareness and emotional maturity, she doesn’t consider how the tests used were developed? Perhaps the average black child in the world was never going to match up to their white counterparts if they haven’t had the same educational advantage. Not to mention swathes of Africans who’ve never been to school. Doesn’t mean they are thick though!
The most telling sign of thread whiteness was that not a single person pulled this poster up on what they said which was deeply offensive.
People just talked over the comment and the thread carried on.

Threads like this one where someone says you’ve got white privileged! Poster pops up and asks what about all the poor white people or boys with low educational attainment? What privilege have they got?

Clearly, they don’t understand what white privileged means. It means if white and black stand together with the exact same background, intelligence and skills or disadvantage, the white person is more likely to be preferred or successful for no other reason than that they are white.

A poster asked earlier on how black people feel being offered jobs they are not qualified for all in the name of diversity ? Erm..what makes you think they are not qualified?

Threads where posters declare they have NEVER seen racism on MN and racism does not exist anymore in the UK 😂.

Should I assume all these people are black?

@Alpineflowers

It's interesting that you only seem to be aware of two colours of skin. White and black.
While ignoring all sorts of ethnic backgrounds.

Class isn't a protected characteristic but lots of sociologists are producing work to indicate that it's the big thing that holds people back.

Yes...

Echo2 Sun 15-Apr-18 17:06:37
Going to university doesn’t make you middle class. Marrying someone wealthy doesn’t make you m/c either.

It's not a genetic thing, you know?

Black women ‘lack the power to be racist’? I disagree. What if you applied that logic to another minority group? Do homosexuals not have the ability to be heterophobic? There might be LESS of it than homophobia but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Anna I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

If you're going to use your own experience of having been on mn for quite a few years though to support your argument, it seems a bit hypocritical to then dismiss those who say they've never seen racism on mn.