Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

[Ghanagirl]

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

Of course "I didn't realise you were black" is an awful thing to say when meeting someone for the first time, no-one would say "I didn't realise you were white/thin/fat/ugly/beautiful" they are all judgements on physical attributes of a person which are not relevant to the persons personality or character. Saying "I didn't realise you were a doctor" is not the same at all as that is to do with what someone does for a living.

I agree with that, koyaanisqatsi.

On mumsnet people don't care if you are black, white, gay, disabled as long as you are middle class it seems.

The thing is it is an accusation that’s upsetting to hear (granted not as upsetting to be on the receiving end of). Can I be the only one sitting here this morning challenging myself in whether I do act/think in a racist manner or am an outright racist or a lot/bit of one according to the sliding scale posted upthread. Can I say I’m not a racist, but then have someone be else say “well you mightn’t say or do anything racist but you think it” or “well you use the word thug do you really know you mean something racist”.

I’m probably not articulating this very well, I aplogise for that. But I’m just not sure how to convince someone I’m not a racist if the reply would be, you’re still pre-disposed to subliminal thoughts.

It’s very very common for black people to have white people expressing shock that they are intelligent or articulate, or to assume that anyone educated or articulate must be white.

The thing is... it really, really isn't. This actually almost never happens.

Racism is often very subtle and often impossible to pin down. Person to person interactions vary enormously and often the racism you experience could be something else. It's more a pattern that keys you in to the fact someone has racist intent. But this is very difficult to explain to people so on social media generally everyone likes to essentially make up the thing they think the racist actually meant but didn't really say. Kind of like how on mumsnet, an OP recounting a thread will always state that a friend cancelling on them for dinner stated that i'm cancelling because you're barren and not rich enough. They 100% did not say that. Implied? Maybe. You believe they thought that? Yes. Said those words? Not a chance.

So, no, in reality (as a black woman in her 40s) that doesn't actually happen.

saiya06
Wow that's some imagination, doesn't remotely describe me though

@saiya06 You are being ridiculous. The OP is mixed race - you need not guess, she has already said her grandfather was white. You, however, seem intent on discrediting her valid experiences. You also seem to have a chip on your shoulder by 'othering' our mixed parentage/ light skin, racial ambiguity and so forth.

You don't speak for all black women. So when you say "This actually almost never happens." You should add: 'to you'. You are not the arbiter of every black or mixed woman's experience.

The thing is: you don't actually need to troll majority white websites in order to feel secure in your blackness. I know I don't. You don't need to create silly petty arguments in the hope of bolstering your clearly weak self image. Why not channel your energy into creating positive change. Are you actually connected to any black communities? Do you even have any IRL black friends? Why not get some?
I have wide group of friends from lots of different ethnic backgrounds pretty hard not to living in London, and I'm not trolling as for this being a majority white website I thought it was a website aimed at mothers from all backgrounds

Ghanagirl-Yes of course people of colour go looking for racism.When a man rolled down his window and shouts “stupid monkeys” at me and my children crossing the road we were looking for it

YABU
I am from an English multi ethnic area and racial abuse is not just by white/English people. Infact white English are the highest number of people racially abused in the UK

I have seen Pakistanis, Jamaicans and other groups dish out racial abuse and violence toward white people and toward each other
The person who mentioned 'Irish' being abused. It works both ways. I once saw an English couple racially abused and threatened in an 'Irish pub'. There are pubs in Scotland where English people are not welcome. At school I saw a white girl bullied mercilessly by a gang of 3 female Jamaicans. Africans and Afro Caribbeans don't always get along with each other either. Pakistanis fall out with recent Roma immigrants and vice versa and so on
There are racists in all groups

I'm posh. I've had negative comments because of it. In a dept store when asking if I could please pass "why who dobyou think you are you posh cah" (three women, two dc, scooter and bike). At dr's reception when I went back the second time for a referral letter and it wasn't there even though the dr said it would be and i stood my ground "don't you talk posh like that to me just because you're going private" and to a friend whose dd was acting on stage in a shakespeare production and who asked a mother to take an out of control toddler out "you stuck up bitch I've paid for these tickets" and screamed abuse all the way to the foyer. The black mum next to me nudged and scoffed "white trailer trash".

I don't think it's just black people to whom some people are inappropriate. I think it's a shame that black people, or people of colour, have been treated badly in the past and it affects their judgement.

In the private road in which we live in an expensive Surrey post code numbers are evenly mixed. There is a Muslim family, two Hindu families, a Black family an Irish family and five white British families. All exchanging Christmas cards, all helping each other out with keys and alarm codes, and making sure there's a car on others' drives when people are away. All sharing the same group of Eastern European cleaners and gardeners.

A very good example of people of colour who have had good educational opportunities, who are wnd or erd generation at most, whose children are happy at school or who have grown into lovely young people who are drs, dentists and accountants.

Also what about +ve discrimination when a BME person is offered a job even when they might not be the best person for the job. How do women of colour feel about that. I feel quite compromised by it because I wouldn't like to get a job because of my race rather than because of my absolute performance at interview. Asked genuinely. It worries me that whilst this isbgoodnforbour BME data overall, it favours those who have shared the same privileges as whites.

Ghana you do realise that many White Women on Mumsnet are married to none White men? They have dual heritage children?
My DS is dual heritage and YES we have received racism, especially when we travel outside of Birmingham to the seaside for example.

Focus on you, not the world view of you x

Does Serena get hate? For what reason, she's amazing. I do find Alexandra Burke really annoying though and over dramatic. I love Meghan but from what I can see she seems to get most hate because of being an American divorcee rather than her skin colour

....just to clarify my last post. My YABU was aimed at the OP (first post in the thread)

Did you just want us all to know you are white and rich, Ranbows?

2nd or 3rd generation. By privileges I mean good schools, good uni's, good family support.

Where I think there is a huge problem is on the big London Estates where gang culture is carefully manipulated and behind those gangs are operating predominantly white, middle aged criminals. I think if one looks at the data there are underprivileged people if all colours sucked into thus and used and when the dealer has a nice watch and a BMW it's something to aspire to. Unfortunately it isn't the dealer who is behind it. There is a shuddering issue relating to serious organised crime in the UK that remains off the radar and it is young people who have little privilege who are being used as collateral.

I don't think we are going to be able to agree on there and will just have to agree to disagree. I don't find MN particularly racist at all. It's a fairly welcoming place and often you don't know and don't care what colour people are. There will obviously be some racism any where and sexism and all the rest. (saiya's analysis seems spot on to me too)

The thing is, where ‘white privilege’ and ‘racist’ are being chucked same as ‘TERF’ is at the moment, then it’s going to get peoples backs up as it’s usually only used to try and shut down a discussion

Or do you know that it is a proven that white Europeans plundered and killed locals in pretty much every part of the globe to get to where they are now . Read your history love .

This is blatently taking history put of context and actually a bit racist in itself.

A tiny TINY number of white merchant / elite class were responsible for European colonialism. The vast majority of white people were working class, lived in poverty and led short brutal lives. They were not responsible for colonialism or slavery and gained nothing from it

Ghanagirl I’m curious as to whether you believe black people can also be racist? Or do you believe it is confined to white people? Genuine question.

And always, like on domestic violence threads (“but men are victims too!”)

Ffs

By "subliminal" do people mean for example the above poster who talks about black, white British, Muslim, Hindu and Irish families as if all of these things are mutually exclusive?

Did you just want us all to know you are white and rich, Ranbows?

Rainbows...?

There is far too much contradictory comment throughout, it's hard to keep up!
Every time somebody comments OP, you counter attack with something that is either irrelevant or missing the point.
I do think a lot of people's perceived subliminal 'racism', is in their heads. By very nature of the word itself!
So responding with an arrogant eye roll and some comment relating to an incident that involved you and your children, is in that context, not relevant. It's sad that you had to encounter that, just as many of us have endured acts of hostility for whatever reason, whether they have been directed towards our nationality or religion or the colour of our skin. Of course that is unacceptably sad, and it is not by any stretch of a word...subliminal. So why reference it in that way??

Arrogance & hostility will get us nowhere, whatever colour we are.
I just can't understand how you cannot see the juxtaposed views you have tried to force on here? Creating a thread with a title that effectively accuses this on-line microcosm of society, as having a problem with blacks. Counter attacking anybody who has dared to challenge that assertion, and accusing two of the earlier posters, of some Caucasian collaboration...
Which in itself is also odd, as you yourself made an assertion that they were white. While at the same time denouncing as racist, the shock horror faux pas, of somebody posting a comment on the fact that somebody, had assumed that they weren't black?!
This whole thread is divisive & inflammatory.