Aibu to think that choosing the father of your child is the most important decision

[Amaried]

I know I'm probably going to be flamed for this but here goes. I'm just back from visiting an upset friend

For background
About a year ago she met her dp, we didn't need her for 3 months and when I eventually met her for lunch. She told us that he was definitely the one and she could see them having a family and life together. Fast forward another month and she announces their much planned pregnancy. Her baby is now 3 months old and her partner has an aversion to working either at home or in a job.. She says he is selfish and even cruel at times. This is the man she chose to be the father of her child.
I suppose what I am asking is aibu in thinking that woman should think long and hard before deciding to have kids with some one. It will impact their children for their whole lives. Mumsnet and rl seem to be full of woman with dead beat dads in their kids lives. I think many people seem to rush into that decision and their kids live with the consequences all their lives. Obviously this only applies to planned pregnancies.

I thought I had found the perfect man, sadly after almost five years together he suddenly became uncertain about whether he really wanted children after all. After two painful years of back and forth, I found myself single and childless in my early 30s.

I dated, I met a lot of people, I found a man who ticked a lot of boxes. By the time we'd been together a year, I was 35. I didn't have three years up my sleeve. Was he the 'perfect choice'? Maybe, maybe not.

Your position relies on the idea that choosing a partner exists in a sort of vacuum. It doesn't. Some women will unintentionally make bad choices, some will have 'accidents', a very few will be careless with this choice. But most women choose the father of their children based on what they perceive to be the best option available to them at the time.

If there appears to be a large number of crap fathers out there, maybe the problem is that society doesn't expect as much from fathers as they do from mothers, and not that all women should hold out for the statistically impossible ideal of the best 10 percent of men.

maybe the problem is that society doesn't expect as much from fathers as they do from mothers,

I think this is unfortunately the case. Women are called bad mothers for giving their child McDonald's more than once a year but men are often praised if they take their child to the park for an hour whilst they 'let' mum have a shower in peace ! I remember being told I was 'lucky' because my partner went to work AND read our son a story at bedtime. Madness.

Of course choosing the person who will be your children's father is an important choice, but equally as we are all human with imperfect information about how people will react to circumstances we can't make the perfect decision every time.

I'd been with DH 14 years, married for 6 when we had DS and it still threw a grenade into our relationship. We have come through it stronger (I hope DC2 is due in 2 months) but it was definitely a steep learning curve and uncovered some attitudes of his that caused huge strife & took a while to resolve (default sexism over who did what, etc). He is a great dad to DS now 3, a good husband, hard worker, generally pretty non-sexist etc ... I just think a lack of sleep brings out the worst in everyone.

So you never know and ahit can and does go wrong.

That said some people make wilfully terrible decisions re who to have kids with, ignoring all available evidence.

My XP was wonderful to begin with. Charming, good job, own business on the side, supported me through postgrad, came to every appointment for my various health issues and pregnancy). He was a great Dad, hands on, had DS at home while he worked. I was a WOHM.

Then the recession hit. His company floundered. He lost his job, couldn't find another. A client tried to sue him. He had a breakdown. He became abusive towards me and after trying my best, I had to leave him. He disappeared. Left the country. All I know is that he's still alive somewhere in the world.

I thought I'd picked a good one too. Don't be too hard on her. I've managed 8 years alone now. No support from ex in any form for years. But DS wants for nothing.

You can never be sure of what's going to happen in the future but you should be as sure as possible and I don't think a planned pregnancy after 7 months (or 8 weeks in another thread at the moment) is a smart move.

However, blaming women for poor choices in who they have DC with is absolving men of their choice to be a shitty partner

No it isn't. Both can be to blame. Not everything has to be women vs men.

I don't see OP as blaming women for not predicting that some men will change for the worse, lie, cheat etc, I think she's just making the point that you need to be with someone longer than 3 months before you plan to have a baby with them (of course accidents happen). This seems logical to me. Also given that after relationship breakdown it is often women as main carers this is something women should probably think about before diving in head first.

The blame for being a shit partner and father rests solely with the bloke. I’ve known people be together seemingly happily for years then the bloke runs off with someone else. It’s not women’s role to police Male behaviour.

Of course it’s not wise to have a baby with someone you don’t know and you’re a fool to have a baby with someone who is obviously a twat. But then many women are vulnerable, coerced, forced, have contraceptive failure etc.
Also people do change, and I dont think you truly ever know anyone - you only have to read the relationships board to see stories along the lines of ‘been married ten years, he’s done x and I’m shocked and upset...’

I’m uncomfortable with placing the onus all on the women here. Maybe your friend is vulnerable? Maybe this bloke is controlling her? Either way, support not judgement is probably the best outcome.

Personally, I left someone because I didn't want him to be the father of my child. We cent see into the future but I took my time, got to know him and his family and learned he wasn't going to be a good choice for me.

I did too - nice guy, together almost ten years but I knew he wasn’t good father material.

BUT I’m a secure, stable person with the insight to do that and the resources and job to get me away. He wasn’t violent or coercive or controlling and I wasn’t vulnerable.

If I had have been, things might have been very different.

I think this is one of those issues where in theory yes, it’s obvious but in practice it’s a lot more complicated.

I don't think anyone could disagree that it's an important choice. Equally things can change or surprise you - I don't think anyone is suggesting that you can predict everything or that a mans crappy behaviour is the responsibility of the woman. However, rushing into something so early without having a proper chance to try to get to know what type of man / father your partner would be seems unwise given the long term impact. Seems unlikely to me that the man in the OP was a model worker at home and outside it until the baby came along... Cuts both ways - of course.

It can still go wrong when you've known someone a long time but a lot of problems seem to occur when couples have babies when you haven't been together long. Or, I'd suggest, when the man had shown no desire to be a father or it hadn't even been discussed yet. Relationships have a honeymoon period and you need at least to get past that and see what the person is really like, not just what they are like when on their best behaviour.

Though I have to say I've seen friends get together and have a baby relatively quickly and that worked out very well for them. And long relationships that haven't survived having children. I do think it's a massive, massive risk to have a baby with anyone really but particularly someone you don't know well and when you haven't established the seriousness of the relationship.

All the above is, perhaps, too much emphasis on women making good choices. It should really be up to men to be better human beings and fathers so that there are more good choices around.

I completely agree with you OP. Absent or not, the father of your baby and your relationship with them will massively influence the child throughout their life. I believe many people conceive a child without truly considering "What are this persons values? Would I be happy if my son grew into a man like this? Do we agree about the best way to parent? Am I aware of what his expectations are in terms of housework and childcare?" Etc etc.
Of course this is some, not all.

You friend rushed in. Why?
Yes some men lie for years, and women can't be blamed for not seeing what an expert deceptive man he was.

but most the facade falls within a year or 2, so why not take things slow?

I agree OP. I think it's best to know someone really well before having children with them. And choose someone who is honourable with strong family values, an established career and good work ethic. It takes time to establish these things so it seems a gamble to start a family with someone you met a few months ago.

The stakes are high. Fathers have so much influence over the child's upbringing, genetics and environment. It makes sense to find the best you can, even if you don't stay together.

I chose not to have an abortion he fucked off and hasn't bothered with her since has married had kids never pays for mine slags me off like I'm a demon it's ok I work I support my child dad number 2 supported his kids till he got a new girlfriend now he drinks smokes doesn't pay and is collecting my kids in an uninsured not moted car I support contact with their father but I'm reporting his car

I can understand the mistake. Men often change once they become fathers and their true colours appear.

What I don’t understand (although I never comment) is when you read on mumsnet things along the lines of, “After we had DD he showed no interest in her, doesn’t help round the house and is abusive. I’m currently pregnant with our third child and.....”

Well yes in an ideal world we should all weight up carefully who the father is going to be. Unfortunately I was very unlucky as my mum was dying and I was 39 and I am an only child. Prior to that my previous relationship I had had a termination and two miscarriages so that had gone horribly wrong.

Many of us can say we are wise after the event. Those whose lives have always panned out in straight lines without too many major glitches won't understand that we don't all share the same good fortune.

I knew that there was something disquieting about my son's dad but the biological clock was ticking and circumstances just took over. I could not bear to carry on without one family member in my world. Since my dad was already dead and I have never been close to my cousins at the age of 39 I was feeling considerably fraught.

Mumsnet and rl seem to be full of woman with dead beat dads in their kids lives. I think many people seem to rush into that decision and their kids live with the consequences all their lives

I was with my ex for 6 years before I got pregnant. He was a great dad. Then he started an affair and my life descended into a Jeremy Kyle special. There are no guarantees in life.

I agree in principle with the ideals in your post OP. But as many posters have already pointed out, no one can predict the future. So your post comes across somewhat righteous and insulting to women.

In my case I had been with DH for 16 years when our one and only DC was born. He really struggled with fatherhood and I was basically left to it. When I returned to work he really stepped up and things dramatically improved.
Unbeknown to me he would go on to develop severe depression a couple of years later. He turned to alcohol and cocaine to help him cope with the illness. The rest, as they say, is absolutely devastating history.
Should I have had a child with him? Of course not. But based on our relationship prior to DC, yes. Who he became is not who he was.

Everyday I question my judgement and blame myself for DC growing up in a single parent family. I really hope others don't view me as you probably would, as the idiot who married an addict and had a child with him.

Yabu. Anyone can change.

You appear to be victim blaming and excusing men their shitty behaviour. A lot of DV doesn't rear it's head until pregnancy.

I was married 12 years before having children. He beat me black and blue for the first time 21 years down the line.

My fault I should have seen the future 2 decades earlier.

I agree OP. Children deserve to be brought into a stable situation and a short term relationship is definitely not that. I appreciate that even in longer relationships things can go wrong but at least you're giving things a better chance.

Totally agree with this. Yes there are going to be people who get pregnant on the first date and go on to be married 50 years, and others who know their partners for a decade and it still goes wrong. But it's plain common sense that if you have been with someone for three or fours years you know them better than if it's been three or four months, weeks or days.

Looks a lot like blaming women for men acting like arseholes to me.

I agree that as a society we expect far more from mothers & quite frankly this pissed me off-when you become parents you do so equally. Why are people absolutely aghast when a woman decided she's had enough & walks away from a family but when men do it no-one bats a fucking eyelid?
So much pressure on women & here's the OP adding to that by asking us to predict how our relationship is going to turn out

Pisses & decides
Twatting autocorrect.

If the guy is a cheat, wants to party around the clock, is mean with money, a drug addict, alcoholic, gambler, beats you or verbally/ emotional abusive, only thinks about himself, has no interest in marriage ( commitment to you), doesn’t help around the house or look after you when you’re sick, hasn’t said he is interested in being a hands on parent or even has that much of a desire to have kids/ is married/ doesn’t work/ only dead end jobs/ still lives at home / has kids to different women. There is a very good chance he is going to be a deadbeat father!!!! There are loads of women that have known these signs upfront and are STILL stupid enough to have a child to one of these guys because they love him and with love you can change him and overcome anything. And then wonder why they have given their children a dead beat father... unfortunately some women due to their low self worth, keep going after the low life’s because they feel they don’t deserve any better.