Aibu to think that choosing the father of your child is the most important decision

[Amaried]

I know I'm probably going to be flamed for this but here goes. I'm just back from visiting an upset friend

For background
About a year ago she met her dp, we didn't need her for 3 months and when I eventually met her for lunch. She told us that he was definitely the one and she could see them having a family and life together. Fast forward another month and she announces their much planned pregnancy. Her baby is now 3 months old and her partner has an aversion to working either at home or in a job.. She says he is selfish and even cruel at times. This is the man she chose to be the father of her child.
I suppose what I am asking is aibu in thinking that woman should think long and hard before deciding to have kids with some one. It will impact their children for their whole lives. Mumsnet and rl seem to be full of woman with dead beat dads in their kids lives. I think many people seem to rush into that decision and their kids live with the consequences all their lives. Obviously this only applies to planned pregnancies.

"you cant predict the future, you could be smoeone who is perfect, have kids and he turns into a dick"

This!

I met my ex we were together almost 4 years before marrying, never lived together, married, decided to have a year then ttc, had some difficulties there inc a very complicated mc which he was very supportive through and apparently devastated by, meaning we'd been married almost 5 years before dd was born. So 9 years together. In all that time seemed and acted a decent bloke, did more than most at home, had no patience or good things to say about deadbeat dads, had a good example set to him by his dad who'd been married before and still saw a lot of his kids from that marriage and paid maintenance AND toward the mortgage on that house...

Cut to dd now 17, we split when she was 2 due to his cheating, he left us penniless paying no maintenance at all for almost first 3 years, after that unreliably paid on the rare occasion csa got their thumbs out their arses! When we first split even though we lived a 10 min walk from him he was late or plain didn't show for contact, this continued for several years despite court orders etc, he's now not seen dd at all for several years, maybe phones 1/2 times a YEAR for less than 5 mins.

NO indication at all he would behave like this, even his parents have been completely blindsided by how he's behaved. His friends from before we split also say things like they "don't recognise him".

How was I supposed to predict that?

But yes let's pile MORE blame, MORE criticism on single mums - I mean they're NEVER portrayed negatively by politicians, msm, social commentators, childcare "experts".... Oh wait! 😡

And that's without considering contraceptive failure, abuse, rape, women who's view of relationships is skewed because of how they've been raised...

To be fair it probably seems like a good decision at the time if he was in his best behaviour and they were happy. Getting to know someone over a longer period of time helps because people can't hide undesirable traits for prolonged periods but even people who take their time can have their life turned upside down by an affair or an unexpected issue. I'm sure at the time she thought he's make great partner and father material, sadly for her that hasn't happened.

In some ways I think you are right OP, I have long thought that sex education in school should be accompanied by good relationship and social education to help young people develop healthy norms and standards in their expectations of relationships.

But unfortunately human nature is such that many people will still find themselves betrayed or let down in relationships.

Lamtam^*
*^
^*Are there some genetically desirable traits that would make someone a crap partner but might be good to pass onto your children?

Eg, would you rather have a child who was naturally tall and sporty (but dad bit of a dick) or someone who was a bit more chubby and physically diminutive and passive but with a “good reliable partner and father” type?

I’m childfree by choice but I must admit I’ve occasionally had the most overwhelming sexual urges towards men who project “conventionally desirable traits”?

My feminist rational mind is telling me “nah” - my vagina is telling me otherwise!

If I could visualise the sons I’d bear by these men, they’d be tall and confident and extroverted (opposite of me really!) So maybe it’s Mother Nature telling me something?

I’d imagine when women pick from anonymous sperm donors, they select for things like intelligence and sportiness and physical robustness, not “niceness”?*^

^*But of course the kind guy would make the better life partner.

So maybe it isn’t that women are making “bad” choices, but that there are two conflicting motivations here?

biology rather than logic might actually be a key factor - we’re advanced animals underneath our civilised exterior*^

There is some truth to this. Look up Evolutionary Psychology. Very interesting

No, its important but not the most important decision. They are always to do with the DCs and sometimes the most important decision is when to leave.

I totally agree.

A marriage- you can get divorced.
Buying a house- you can sell the house.
Having a baby- joined for life.

But it seems like because it isn’t a formal thing that people don’t take it seriously.

Yes, things change and you may grow apart. But it seems that many people enter into a ‘having children’ stage with people they would not feel confidently enough about to buy a house or get married.

Madness.

Father of my children was my first ever boyfriend at 16, didn't think about children when I first met him.

But I made a very good choice 😁

One thing I always wonder is why women get married and have children with someone that doesn't pull his weight at home. Really 50% of the housework.
How can you believe he respects you if he acts like you are the maid/cook/cleaner/PA/... of course he won't suddenly change and do night wakings or nappy changes when you have a baby!

I'm not joined for life with my children's father! Or at least not in anyway that is upsetting to me or to the kids. It just is what it is.

Lots of catastrophising does go on. Yes, facing up to a mistake is a hard time and the transition back to independence is difficult but it can be the making of a woman.

I agree that people can change or pretend but I suppose I think that people shouldn't rush in no matter how perfect someone seems .
It's such a important decision I think it deserves serious consideration longer than a few months
I don't feel you can know anyone well enough in that time frame.

I can see where you are coming from OP. My sister is with a complete waste of a man and has just got her much wanted BFP through IVF after trying for a while and I want to scream if its this bad a relationship now why would you add a baby? He ticks every box for a LTB vote on a good day.

But each to their own and yes I agree you can think you have the perfect relationship and it breaks don however that is very different from being unhappy doing in every aspect doing100% of house work for a work shy lazy git pre kids to then choosing to add a baby to it and expecting a 360 turn around.

I think fatherhood changes some men for the worse.

Whether it's the suddenly coming second instead of first in their partner's lives (so they get nasty towards their partner or stray to someone who seems to put them first); the enormous responsibility and/or pressure to provide if the man is the main provider (so they give up on work or put work above family); the comparison with men who don't have family commitments and/or competitiveness with other fathers (so they turn into mean angry types who sometimes take it out on the child); or simple jealousy of the SAHP because they are the primary caregiver (so they take their anger out on them); fatherhood mixed with some male psyches can turn nasty.

I have seen it happen time and time again and it impacts a HUGE percentage of relationships.

I don't disagree. There are caveats including people changing, cheating, making mistakes or an unplanned pregnancy however making a conscious decision to have a baby with someone who cant function as a fully supportive partner before having kids is an obvious recipe for disaster and I do struggle to have sympathy for friends I see in this situation through their on choice and then wondering why it is going wrong.

As I see it the main problem is that men don't have consequences from having babies, they can just get up and leave, refuse to pay child support and then meet someone else....

I know that it is sometimes the woman who goes, but rarely.

As an aside I met DH in June moved in by October, it just seemed to happen not a formal decision. I got pregnant the following Feb married in August and by the end of November we were parents. That was 30 years ago and we're still together. He was a good Dad and now a good Grampy. He has his downsides but they are outweighed by the good ones

Without that biological father the child in question would not exist

Not that easy to pick a good Dad. My friend was with a guy who was lovely to start with and a great Dad but now he is non existent because he has a new family. My DH is more of a father figure. He didn't even get her a Christmas.

I think with men who aren’t being great Dad’s it’s because their parents aren’t raising them to be that way. I’m always telling DS that when he leaves home and starts a relationship that his wife/partner is not his maid, to treat her with respect and child rearing is both parents responsibility. I just have to hope it sinks in. I know DM never had that conversation with DB. Having said that she never really spoke to us about much. Same with DH and his mother. She allowed herself to be his skivvy and he got a shock when he realised he would need to pull his weight.

Well it's not a particularly good idea to get pregnant within a couple of months of knowing someone. I expect we're about to now hear dozens of cases where it worked out brilliantly, and they no doubt exist, but it's a massive risk when you barely know somebody. I would have advised your friend against planning a pregnancy so quickly. Accidents do happen, of course, but apparently not here.

That said, it's possible to do everything right and the person still act like a complete dick once babies come along. Parenthood is such a huge thing. You cannot know how you'll respond to it, let alone anyone else. It's just not something you can prepare for until you've done it.

It's not just that there are men who don't show their true colours until it's too late. It's also that many women have an unavoidably skewed idea of what they can and should expect from a partner because they have grown up in abusive or dysfunctional families with no good relationship model. Blaming them for that is pointless and cruel.

I do also think that the title and pitch of this thread is slightly off. I think that it should be ‘choosing the other parent of your child...’. Women can make things really hard for men sometimes too, believe it or not. My brother for one has had 2 children with a nightmare woman and it’s made his life a nightmare.

And whoever said that she is not joined with the father of her children forever... yes you are!!! Via your children either his actions/contact or inactions/contact make him a part of your life forever more. (Unless you go NC with your children).

Graphista

You couldn't have predicted that after him appearing for so long to be a decent man. But I think your situation is not that common. I think usually there are signs from quite early on such as putting their partner down, being controlling, isolating them from friends, being jealous of them spending time with family, not pulling their weight at home etc. I do know women, including my own mother, that ignored these signs and went on to have children with 'men' like this.

Eolian

I agree with this. I had a friend many years ago that literally every boyfriend she had was a total loser. They were all jealous, possessive, abusive, didn't work, smoked weed all day etc. She went on to have kids with one of them and the relationship was just so bad. She believed his possessive nature showed how much he loved her and it was so hard to watch. She was a really lovely person but she just didn't know that these relationships were not healthy. Her mum had lived the same life so it's all my friend knew. Thankfully she did break up with him many years later and moved away. I don't see/hear from her now but I think of her often and really hope that she managed to break the pattern as she had 2 daughters.

We really need to educate our boys and girls as teenagers about what a healthy relationship is. I know that sex and relationship education in schools does touch upon this but when you get a group of teenagers being taught about sex etc they seem to all sit their sniggering with their friends due to the nature of the topic.

I am inclined to agree with you OP. Having a child with someone binds you to them for life ( well the child's life anyway).
And when that goes wrong it can be very difficult.
I know some women ( and men actually) who have had children with people they didn't know well or had more children with people who were crap parents to existing children.
Eg. A neighbor of mine told me a story about how her ex partner left their 1 year old and 1 week old baby alone and emptied her bank account as well as being a useless git in general and she had a third baby with him.
He's long gone now, doesn't pay child support and hasn't seen the children in years.
Imo It was poor judgement for her to have another baby with him. Maybe it was an accident.