About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

7 years is too long for it to be like this. Sorry op.

Cut your losses here and go abroad/pursue your exciting career free and single. It will be great! And I'd put money on you finding someone who are more suited to.

And when it's right - it's right. There's no second guessing, no wondering, no uncertainty.

Take it from me - I ended a LTR when I was 27. I was then single until I was in my early 30s - enjoying London, travelling, working on my career. Met someone new when I was 33, married within 2 years, first baby shortly after. Still extremely happy 6 years and 2 kids later.

Haven’t had time to RTFT so apologies for that, but OP, I was you. So many of us were. In the end my relationship ended in our late 20s when he freaked out that I was ‘growing up’ and he wasn’t (I didn’t feel grown up, still don’t!), friends were getting married and starting families. I wasn’t particularly wanting to do that immediately but was clear that’s where I thought we were heading, we were in love, committed etc etc, I thought we were on the same page - but we weren’t. He was just saying whatever he thought I wanted to hear to keep me happy.

Honestly, looking back now from my mid-30s, I’m so so so glad I wasn’t able to persuade/pressure him into keeping going! Don’t get me wrong the breakup was devastating at the time, but I’ve had a fab life since then - travelled, worked in different countries, career going great guns, had some decent short/medium term relationships and some crazy fun times, and now am in a long term stable relationship, 3 years and counting, where we actually are on the same page, communicate in an adult fashion, and am genuinely happy for the first time in my life - not putting up striving for a theoretical perfect future, not happy-for-now-hoping-things-will-turn-out-ok, genuinely actually happy on a day to day basis. Dream career, lovely home etc. I used to want children with my ex - now I’m more ambivalent on the idea but open to it, and there’s time.

Whereas my ex - well last time I saw him he was exclusively shagging ‘older’ women as he thought they wouldn’t want kids with him so there’d be no pressure to commit; he’s nearly 40 and still living like a student in a disgusting houseshare and occasionally leaves me drunken voicemails at 3am because he was ‘thinking of me’. I never think of him.

OP - if he was sure, you wouldn’t be needing to pressure him. If he’s not sure, then put yourself first. Don’t wait around wasting your life when you could be following your dreams.

Like??

I haven't much to say that hasn't already been said, but I just wanted to add to the warning chorus. I too have seen women wait and wait for commitment, only to be left high and dry in their early 40s, fertility seriously compromised, as their ex starts a beautiful catalogue family of moppets with his very new, much younger wife.

It's one of the most cruel things a man can do to a woman, in my opinion, and it's all the more cruel in that they seem to do it unwittingly. A man of 30 has the guts of 25 years to slot in marriage and a child or two. A woman of 30 has, realistically, about 10. Yes of course there are many women who have healthy babies in their 40s, but it's a big gamble, because you don't know whether you'll be one of the lucky fertile 40 somethings, or whether your fertility will crash and burn much earlier.

Even if you never meet anyone else, better to remain single and childless for the next 10 years than to waste them with a man who you then resent as you gave up your chance for children with him. The women I know who are in this position are full of the most crippling pain, grief and resentment, it's awful to see

I would be squirming with embarrassment if I was with the man I loved for 7 years.. 7 YEARS! who knew how desperate I was to tie the knot but who made up excuses and ignored me whilst giving me nuggets of hope to shut me up now and again.

He must have skin as thick of a rhino to carry on living with you knowing full well the undercurrent.

He is obviously getting something out of stringing you along like this. All men are well aware of a womans' limited stage in life for getting pregnant.

So what is it? Are you contributing financially? No strings sex? Housework, cleaning, laundry and cooking?

Why would he want to stop a good thing? He benefits hugely doesn't he? Most men like a 'wife' type person for practical reasons. It makes their lives easier.

As for the poster who disagreed with the romanticism of a proposal as women being passive...just to let you know I had the magic of a proposal on bended knee with the absolute love of my life and we have been married 25 years now (you couldn't find a lovelier, 'feminist' dh who does his own laundry and is a brilliant dad and my best friend).

I was 32 when I got married and it was purely magical time in my life when I thought I would be single forever.

The more you post OP, the more it sounds like you're on some level looking for permission to end this, validation of what you already think.

You're a place-holder for him.

Bin him off, go to exotic and fabulous places and build a new life. You will be happier.

ME "You can't bring up a baby/toddler in a challenging location unless you have access to some kind of foreign diplomats' enclave."

OP "I will, but that's besides the point. I want to get married now, enjoy married life for a bit. That may well include going abroad in that time, but in the knowledge that there's someone to come back to who is committed to spending his life with me. I only plan to have kids 5 years down the line, not now, and I have made this clear. "

Hmm, by "married life" you mean life as it is now but knowing that you are out of the dating game for good?

Ironically I think your highest chance of marrying this man lies in the following dialogue:

OP "darling we need to talk about something"

HIM "Oh sweetie, I thought I'd explained my feelings...."

OP "I'll be leaving for Gabon on Saturday. I'll be gone a year. Isn't it exciting?"

HIM "Ooh yes, you must fulfil your career. have a great time. didn't you want to get married though...?"

OP yes, but I respected your explanation. I'll really miss you, you know. Kiss kiss. Oh, here's my taxi".

OP disappears to Gabon.
Sends postcards (nb postcards not facetiming, etc).

In that way he can do the "oh I suddenly want to commit" dance but there's a 50% chance it'll be with you.

NB you are young so just trust an oldie on this - postcards and letters make the heart grow fonder. Texts, social media stuff and crying phone calls do the opposite.

The more you post OP, the more it sounds like you're on some level looking for permission to end this, validation of what you already think.

No, I'm genuinely looking for unbiased advice. I can obviously see what the general consensus is on this thread and I'm going with the general flow.

Go Abroad Girl!!!!!!!

(worked for me)

OP I think I may set up a "how to catch your man" service for young women. you are inspiring me.

"fuck off and don't facetime him" is step 1.

It could be he doesnt want a wedding rather than not wanting a marriage? Have you suggested just a small registry thingy

OP, you sound awesome. Set yourself free to meet someone equally amazing.

I get it. You "like" him, you've been together for seven years, it feels sad to leave. He may be your best friend. I've been there. But you'll look back and be glad you didn't waste any more of your precious time on this earth with someone whose heart isn't really in it. Maybe you can be friends in the future.

It could be he doesnt want a wedding rather than not wanting a marriage? Have you suggested just a small registry thingy

I don't want a wedding, don't want a ring, don't want a fancy surprise proposal, don't want a macho manly man, don't want him to financially support me.

I just want him, and to have him forever, and for him to want me back, and to make it forever officially. And a chance of having kids (with him) before its too late.

Sadly I don't think it sounds like he's the right guy

If you were to move abroad when would you be leaving, or rather when would you be posted?

He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet.

This should be a major red flag OP. To me that reads as “I am not sure we have a future together.” But I suppose it could be a misinterpretation. After seven years together and at thirty he should know whether he wants to commit further to you or not and the fact he doesn’t speaks volumes. I would leave. You have a good eight years left of ‘good fertility’ which is plenty of time to find someone who is on the same page as you. I can just see this guy being the type that constantly puts you off until it’s too late. I’ve seen it happen before and it’s really sad. Don’t take the chance.

He could be quite consciously aware that he might not want to be with you forever but is happy enough now - secretly seeing himself as probably only happy to settle down with kids at 46, etc.

He could just be an eternal ditherer, and you're making that possible by essentially staying with the staus quo.

Either way it's the same solution. Leave. Go abroad. Right now. Don't waste another month, even. He needs to shit or get off the pot, and he can't decide, because who knows what off the pot looks like. So - you push him off the pot. He might decide to stay off it and shit on the floor, but by then you'll be in Gabon making eyes at dashing young(ish) men in the enclave of fun, and the state of his floor won't be your problem

Either that or the shock will make him 'realise, suddenly' that he actually had it all there in front of him all along.

I only met my DH when I was a bit older than you, the long term relationships I had before that served me well in finding a better 'un. Do the same, and all this could end up being a very satisfying life trajectory. Stay and dither, and you could bitterly regret it. There are other men out there.

Leave - make some fabulous plans and leave.

"I don't want a wedding, don't want a ring, don't want a fancy surprise proposal, don't want a macho manly man, don't want him to financially support me.

I just want him, and to have him forever, and for him to want me back, and to make it forever officially. And a chance of having kids (with him) before its too late."

you've made me sad now.

have you said those exact words to him? are you sure you have?

But he has told you all the things he wants ( that you don’t ) and that he doesn’t want ( that you do). You are hoping he is going to change. You are living in make believe land. You want us all to confirm that you are doing the right thing by holding onto this dead end relationship.

agree with fizzy - he doesn't know what "off the pot" looks like.

he may be imagining it as like the present but with you crying a lot and everything being less fun.

you need to create that different, Gabonese/Venezuelan/Russian reality.

When a guy says "I'm not ready" or "I don't believe in marriage", it just means he doesn't want to marry you. It does not take 7 years to "know", more like 1-2.

Cut your losses.

My stepdad dated a girl for about 7-8 years in his 20s. Wasn't interested in marriage. When he met my mum abroad he proposed within a year, even though they'd only seen each other every 3 months. She moved here and they've been married 18 years. When they know you're the One, they don't sit on it.

It's just that I'm not single, I've been in an LTR for 7 years with someone I really like.

This is telling, OP.

I honestly think that you want to marry him because he's the only man you've been in a relationship with for any length of time. There are loads of men out there. You have the chance of a really exciting career by the sound of it. You do not need a man as a kind of anchor to your life, and you definitely don't need this one.

I don't think he's a bad man for not wanting to marry you - I think there are quite a lot of men who really don't understand that women's fertility declines sooner than men's. I think you're 'comfortable enough' for him and he'd rather not be single and have to cook and clean for himself, and actually invest time and effort into finding a willing sexual partner.

have you said those exact words to him? are you sure you have?

Through snot and tears, dunno if he caught it (he did).

he may be imagining it as like the present but with you crying a lot and everything being less fun.

That is what he sees it like. But also, the present is me crying a lot.

And it's a viscous cycle of him saying that we can't possibly get engaged since I'm constantly unhappy and frustrated in the relationship (about not getting engaged mainly).