pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[lostjanni]

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

Oh no, here we go again, the Guardian readers are making themselves known.

I am disgusted at the posters on here defending this criminal, and saying 'awwwh poor lamb he must have had a bad childhood.,,' BLESSSSSS!' hmm

This is, as usual, an incredibly simplistic characterisation of Bob13's post. What was pointed out there was that, with a better upbringing, Vincent may not have grown up to be a criminal, he would be alive, and his victims would have been left in peace. Is any of that actually untrue?

And before snowagain leaps in with more overexcited abuse and assumes I in any way sympathise with or condone anything that Vincent has done, I'd like to direct her to my post at 00.22.

So we are Sun or DM readers if we dare say anything against these criminals, right [right], and express anger and disgust at what they did to this poor man, and how they operate to rob and threaten innocent people in their homes, this has been going on for decades. Yes it certainly is hug a criminal day today.

Just in case their wife or kids read Mumsnet, right ok!

Do you were applying it mumsnetters and not the adult members of the family then!

Again wow just wow

Patronising and sneery too. Well there’s s surprise

If it's uncivilised to delight in this partnership of crime's demise, so be it. I hardly care what the virtue signalers think of my civility.

"I do not want anyone to feel intimidated or that they are not being allowed to respond in a dignified way to a tragic death"

It's not much of a surprise, then, that the police have lost any grip on crime in the UK. What an embarrassment. They owe this poor man an apology for not sorting this family sooner, so that maybe he wouldn't have had to. Poor guy.

Yes with the right upbringing they would not have done that and all would be well, but that is fartetched and will not happen, it is a cycle of crime that has gone down the generations, for Vincent's kids will probably end up the same way unfortunately.

Gnu of course not. In the same way that many things coulda, woulda, shoulda...but ultimately didn’t.

But people still can make choices despite the odds being stacked, and in his 37 years on the planet the dead career criminal did not make many good ones, including going tooled up on his latest job to rob old people.

If he’s chosen to stay home with those much-loved kids of his that night, his fate might have been sunnier.

He did not think of his wife and kids, when he went out robbing.

I don't want to quote all your posts @snowagain so I'll just say "Hear, hear" to all of them.

snowagain, on what planet does Bertrand's statement that "That does not mean that I think this man and his family are anything but deeply unpleasant criminally minded anti social people who should receive any punishment “the law of the land” considers appropriate - including for intimidation if that’s what they are doing,* mean that she "hugely supports criminal gangs"? You really need to withdraw that allegation.

“What do you suggest I do @BertrandRussell, offer him a chocolate digestive and a cappuccino, and give a fucking cuddle?”

Yes, that is exactly what I think. It’s as if you can read my mind.

I'm not "celebrating" his death.

I'm just not bothered by it. The only reason he died is because of his own actions - just as if he'd driven drunk off a cliff.

I am bothered by the pathetic attitude of the Police - it would be very simple to ban the flowers as a breach of the peace (as we're seeing) but they're too frightened of upsetting the wrong people.

This is because the Resident's won't do or say anything to rock the boat (out of fear) whereas the family of the dead thief will quite clearly scream, shout & rock the boat.

It's this "anything for a quiet life" attitude by the Police that is really ticking me off.

What’s the point in talking about his upbringing?

Many people have tough starts and wouldn’t dream of doing this equally many people from good starts do just this.

Adults make choices.

This wasn’t a 16 year old starving and homeless abused kid this was a 37 year old career criminal
Adult who couldn’t be fucking arsed to get a job like the rest of us and support his family but a man who choose to hold up and terrorise an innocent old couple.

I personally couldn’t give a fuck about him or his upbringing or his death

is it really any surprise that people feel the need to protect themselves as te police dont seem to do much as this case shows

they seem to be on the travellers side at the moment,so i can see why people have low confidence in the police

YEP, here they
@aeroflotgirl

oh no, the guardian readers are making themselves known!

YEP! Here they come @aeroflotgirl

Must have just woken up........

Me personally, I have to pop off as I need to to take the bins out, wash up, clean the kitchen, and hoover the carpets. Before DH comes home and thinks I have spent all morning on mumsnet

AND I need to go fetch my Daily Mail and SUN newspaper from the shop. See ya later...

Thanks @missionitsimpossible

Careful, Bertrand, I don't think snow understands sarcasm.

Road.

See sgree she this is how right wing groups gain supporters because millions of ordinary people feel the police the politicians and the court system defends the perpetrator and not the victim.

I don’t blame the police they are led by twats I blame the crimindl justice system and the courts/government.

Jeremy is most probably there offering them tea don’t worry Bertram

Ffs!!!

This is starting to read like the daily mail comments section now...

Occasionally that’s not such a bad thing.

We should be rocked to our core and outraged that people like the dead career criminal think it’s ok to tool up and rob old folk.

That the options of those old people were reduced to causing harm to another person; which they’d probably never even countenanced in their wildest dreams.

That the relatives of the dead man can with impunity erect a distasteful, provocative display that makes everyone else’s life in that community just a little bit more unpleasant.

It’s wrong. And we should all be shouting that.

I know, I am shocked by the Police response, really awful. So anybody removing flowers will be arrested, yes arrest innocent people why don't you, whilst vile nasty specimins like Vincent and his family, are free to threaten and intimidate. Their very presence in the area is menacing, they must be laughing, as they have the Police in the palm of their hand.

I've never read a Guardian article in my life.

I'm not even sure they sell it in Rochdale...

It's this "anything for a quiet life" attitude by the Police that is really ticking me off.

It's pathetic, isn't it. The police have been completely distracted by their political correction, as evidenced by their soft-peddling travellers. They forgot they're there to fight crime rather than community outreach.

Question “What do you think if you see someone carrying a Guardian in Margate?” [substiture your favourite local “troubled” town]

Answer”Oh, dear, someone's mugged a social worker”

We should be rocked to our core and outraged that people like the dead career criminal think it’s ok to tool up and rob old folk.

I couldn't agree more. I also couldn't agree more with the proposition that their victims are fully entitled to defend themselves to the hilt, as is fully permitted by law - including, where necessary for defence purposes, killing their attackers.

But I still don't see why, when that leads to a death, we should all be expected to celebrate. I would far rather see adequate police and criminal justice resources in place that mean that the likes of Vincent are properly dealt with in accordance with the law.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/11/hither-green-standoff-continues-as-tributes-to-intruder-removed-again

Police tell people to respect the family of this criminal by not removing the floral tributes, how are they respecting the community, by robbing, threatening and intimidating them. It works both ways. It is not DM that incites vigilante action, but the action of the wet soggy Police with no backbone or gumption, protecting the criminals, instead of the ordinary law abiding folk. I tell you, if they were on my personal property, they would be taken down.