Who choses a 13yo's school (parent or child)?

[Marcellus]

DS is 12. He'll be moving school next year (as will all his friends- he's at a prep school) and has two options.

School A: a good school with great facilities. He would be very near the top academically there. This is where most of his friends are going. It has a nice atmosphere and is generally a decent option.

School B: a really exceptional school. It is more academic so he would have to work harder to be near the top (although he certainly wouldn't struggle there). I think the ethos and atmosphere of the school would suit him brilliantly. None of his friends are going there (although he'd be starting at the school's main entry point, so most of the other boys will be new too).

He wants to go to School A and I want him to go to School B. I'd be grateful for people's views on who should ultimately decide? (Or rather, I think I should ultimately decide, but how much should my decision be based on my views rather than his?)

To me, School B would be a much better choice. The disadvantage of not being with his friends would be quickly forgotten once he had settled in, but the benefit of being at a school which suits him better (and where he won't be able to coast academically) will last. I also quite like the idea of him having a fresh start with new people as he's been at school with the same crowd since he was 3.

He thinks that School A is a good school (and it is) and so why can't he go there and be with his friends?

I'm also worried that, if I choose for him, he'll go to School B with the wrong attitude. Gargh.

Sounds like you are spoilt for cjoicebop. What is wrong with school A exactly?

I'd let your son decide - I think happiness comes before grades.

I hear this a lot and see it posted on mn. I think it is a complete red herring, and actually very false thinking.
Why?

1. The two are not in opposition, you can be happy at a place that gives you good grades.
2. It assumes that at this age they have a good understanding of the things that will make you happy. As several examples on this thread show, sometimes parents can see a bigger picture, and the child will look back in a few years and say- good call, thanks mum and dad.
3. Happiness for kids is often perceived through only the medium of friendships, but kids also find it hard to imagine a situation in say 6 months of new friends and different opportunities.
4. For a bright kid being in a place where they are not stretched and challenged can lead to unhappiness, and they don't really get that they may feel more satisfied and content when academically challenged.
5. Grades may not be the be all and end all, but if the schools are very different and a child ends up with poor grades and then can't go on to do something they want to do/study what they want, then their long time, lifelong happiness may be part of the equation

I'm 43 and even now I'd want to go where my friends are going! I think the most important thing to consider is where he will be happy.

I'd choose B, but try to convince him that he'd chosen B.

Being effortlessly in the top set is an invitation to mediocrity. I'd choose the more rigorous school where they could move towards the top with considerable work.

IMO parents can see the fuller picture. We are in a similar position. I work in the Best school in town so there is a higher (all though not guaranteed) chance my children can go. Dc1 is happy to go even though non of his school friends will be there however dc2 is less happy. Ive told them it happening no matter what. If they get into the better school they are going.

Takemedown - so you would never try anything new, or go to a new job where you don't know anyone? Or take on a bit of a challenge in order to get something in the long run?

as I said, a new school, where he will make new friends is not necessarily incompatible to happiness. It is a false dichotomy to say it is one or the other, he can be happy at either (and possibly also be successful at either)

Parents choose.
We've had this with DS14.
Two schools - one with an average level of academics,, not much help for his learning disability ( never had a child with it there) but all his friends were going.
The other was a church based private school, better academics, better learning support, no friends.

He was a arse at the interview for school 2, sabotaged the test ,carried on mightily at home but got in as the teachers appreciated his creativity, and told him what he said/did at the interview showed a intelligent boy.

School 2 it was for us. As he needs help to get through school, and access to resources the other school just didn't have.

He now loves it.

At 11 they can't take all the factors into consideration, and the majority of friendships from 12 don't last anyway.

When my dd was in Year 6 we went to open days at 4 different schools. Afterwards we sat down together and talked about the pros and cons of all of them.

3 of them had good reputations and the 4th had a bad local reputation, but had a good new management team and was on the way up so none of the schools was a really bad option.

We decided that dd was the one who would be spending the next 5 years at the school so let her make the final decision. She's really happy with the choice that she made and I think that letting her choose was the right decision.

I think you get end say after lots of discussion. It also really depends on the child. My oldest ds I could send anywhere as he's so friendly and athletic, where ds2 we would need to be very careful and probably try and keep him with his friends as he struggles with anxiety

My elder dd was at the top academically of her super selective private school.

My younger dd was probably a little below middle at the same school.

Both thrived at that school. Elder dd was motivated to stay at the top and continue to have her academic achievement recognised, younger dd benefitted from
having a nurturing, academic environment and people to look up to.

Ultimately, I think the ethos of the school, the level of pastoral care, and whether the dc have good friends, are more important than the academic position of your child within their year group.

Why do you think that being near the top is a good or bad thing?

Same situation, my mum let me choose in the end and after much agonising, I went with A. In the long run, I really think it made very little difference to my life chances. I got top grades at A, went to study where and what I wanted and if he's bright, I am sure that'd be the same for your Ds. If you feel he's gone through a proper decision making process, I'd let him decide. Only send him to B if you think he's not mature enough to really think it through

I think it depends on how hard he will find it to make new friends and if that is the only reason he is discounting school B.

My parents wanted me to go to a convent school (goodness only knows why) and I hated the interview day there. I screwed up the entrance exam on purpose and ended up at my choice of grammar school instead. (I did very well in the 11+ so exams at the time didn't bother me - I must have confused the hell out of my parents.) Anyway, if my parents had made me go to a school that they'd wanted me to, I wouldn't have coped, but that says a lot about me as a person/my home life/how controlling my parents were.

I don't see anything wrong at all with having a reasonable discussion with your son, because you clearly understand why both schools would fit him but why you prefer school B. Perhaps if there is a local school he would hate to go to (similar to my hated convent school - it's a good school just was a bad fit for me) then you could say that you are obviously not sending him to X because he would hate it, if that might help him understand things a little better.

Well parents should choose but I had a similar argument with my parents aged 10 and I now realise that it was very difficult/impossible for my parents to make me go to a school I didn't want to go to. They relented and let me go to school with my friends (crappy comp as opposed to a private school).

In hindsight I should have listened to them and so regret not going where I was told but it's not a fair comparison because the school I ended up in was very shit.

A friend recently sent her yr7 kid to a school against his will but made it very clear that "if you really don't like it by Christmas we'll try and move you". He is relatively ok with it now and no longer wants to switch. But it could have ended up badly.

Practically and legally choices about his education are your responsibility. You could find out tomorrow that your circumstances have changed and you need to move to the other side of the world or that you can't afford to pay school fees and then you would have to find another way to provide him with an education. Plenty of children have no choice of school.

All you can do is take his opinion and feelings into account when you make your decision.

I think what you are really asking is might he be so traumatised by going to school B without his friends that his education or your relationship would suffer? I don't think that if you really believed this were a risk you would even be asking the question.

The message from this thread seems to be that it depends on the child and the schools...
I went to secondary school (a school that was selective,academic and perfect for me !) with my best friend from primary school,and as a quiet introvert type with a small group of friends only that made such a difference to me.We made new friends as well,and I'm sure I would have made friends if she hadn't been there,but as it was we were able to hit the ground running on the academic and settling into the school side of things because we didn't also have to adjust to new friends and a lonely journey to school.
It depends on the child.And the friends. And the schools.As a parent you have to weigh all of that up very carefully but ultimately I think it's your decision.

I think the question is which school would suit him. Enter, rather than who chooses. Personally I think school A would be better, he’ll have his friends and he’ll be in the top sets

My mum chose my school when I was 13 and I've not really forgiven her for that. She made her choice based on the fact that the school was a few minutes from our home and then moved house literally a month after I'd started at the school. I remember begging and begging to be allowed to go the school I wanted to and she just wouldn't listen.
The school I wanted to go to was where my best friends went - they all did brilliantly and went on to university, I didn't. I could have had I been in the right environment. Instead, I was left in a school where I was bullied and not one thing was done about it - I hated it there by the time I left.
Please listen to your son and ask him for his reasons that he think his choice would be better.

I would look at the university entrance success of both schools. If school A is getting a reasonable proportion of pupils into good universities despite their slightly less academic attitude then that would sway me. What does your son see as his future career?

Obviously school B will be expecting good university entrance results since they pride themselves on their academic success, but does this apply to all students? What happens to the ones who can't quite keep up with the academic stress? Where do they end up? And at what emotional cost.

If you think your son is going to have to fight for his standing in the year then are you doing him any favours? Adolescence is hard enough without putting additional and perhaps unnecessary stress on children. I would hate to have spent my teen years comparing myself to my peers all the time and feeling that I was running to keep still. I don't think that encourages a healthy attitude to learning or to life.

Your family is fortunate to be in a position where you have two good options to choose from. Make sure that your own wishes, ambitions and expectations are not taking precedence over your child's well being.

My parents decided, rejecting the school I wanted (no smelly boys) and the school my friends were going to (newly comprehensive so they were wary).
They admit it was the wrong choice (the new comp turned out to be excellent) but I also admit that my choice (the girls' school) would have been totally wrong (they did almost no higher level science and I ended up doing a science PhD).
Their choice was based on rational and valid assumptions and mine on the priorities of a 10 year old girl.

I had this problem recently and a friend said "In the end, you're the adult with 40 years of learning behind you so you get the final say."

So I chose and I was right! Ha! DD loves her school.

We took dd's opinion into consideration. We went to look at all the options, told dd our views and reasons. We actually would have been happy with two of the three schools but ultimately we wanted dd to be happy too. We knew both of those schools weighs have served her well. So we let her choose. She choose the school where friends were going. Though she quickly found new friends anyway (her closest friend from primary didn't go to her school) and, although she still chats to her primary friends, her best mates at school were not at her primary.

We are now at sixth form options. We've looked round many schools together and again, we've given our thoughts but ultimately it's dd's choice - though as one involved fees we obviously had to agree to that aspect.

So I'd say a bit of both but I wouldn't send my child to a school I thought they'd be unhappy about. After all, it's them who have to go there every day. Though, if one option was significantly better than the other, I am not see I could support the child's decision to go to a poor school over a good one.

I chose for DD last year. She is in school B equivalent: more academic, pushes her, but her closest friends all went to school A: more music, performing arts, creative based. She 'hated' me for it, but now has a great circle of new friends, and still keeps in touch with Primary school friends (in fact, with one of them today!), so social side is good.

She is being challenged academically, which she loves, she has quite a competitive streak! She is also quite shy, so I really didn't think school A was a good choice - the only reason she wanted to go was cos of her friends.

All round we made the right choice, I don't think she would have got on so well at school A.

A child needs to be happy to do well in school, I told my son my preference and explained my reasoning but told him it was ultimately his choice as it would be him spending the next seven years there. Luckily he went with my choice!!

Saying that, it was a choice between two very good schools, if one choice had been a bad school I would have made the decision for him!