To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[frankchickens]

This is an attempt to intimidate the innocent family. Flowers should be removed - isn’t it littering?

I'm with miffy on this, it shouldn't matter that he is a traveller, imagine if hed been Scottish or from Liverpool or was Asian would we then be bashing everyone from those walks of life ... No and quite rightly no.picking on the vulnerable is despicable, but I worry this will happen again and again, let's reverse the ages of the two men ... Do you still all feel the same

It’s a vile criminal family though so you expect vile behaviour from the scum.

Unfortunately in this country we tolerate scum farctoo easily.

Combined with the threats by this man's family, how can the placing of flowers outside of the crime scene be seen as anything but intimidating?

I don't believe in capital punishment but if he hadn't have been there he would still be alive and probably targeting other vulnerable people. Of course his family have the right to grieve however maybe they should have intervened when this man was obviously involved in such crimes (and has been for a number of years according to reports).

I think it would would have been more appropriate for the family to release a statement offering some sort of an apology to the home owners that their relative terrorised but they don't seem to have that level of humanity.

Unfortunately, we do experience a number of Traveller issues here. Typically, if there is a Traveller funeral the local pubs close, as instructed to by the Police, because of the levels of violence towards themselves, others and property. Also, whenever they're in the local parks they destroy gates, churn up the grass, damage playground equipment, leave waste, both human and otherwise. The burglary rates go through the roof, anything metal goes overnight. Then they disappear and our local council is left with a very large bill to put everything right.

I think there are definitely some issues with parts of the Traveller community and to just cry racist is not dealing with the issues. Unfortunately there are parts of the Traveller community that do engage in long term criminal activity. Why is it so wrong to call this out?

Yes well again we have the same people defending the imdefensible in grounds of political correctness.

Like Rotherham really or Telford.

Ok lets replace the word travellers with Muslim or Jewish or Catholic and see how long it takes mumsnet to delete this thread, the bigotry here is disgusting .

I don't care if the guy was a traveller or whatever else. He broke into the home of an elderly couple armed with a screw driver and intended to rob them. If he was my son I would be deeply ashamed. Of course I would mourn him, but in private. I wouldn't dream of putting flowers up on the property of the couple he had tried to steal from.

peoples experience of travellers is bigotry,i thought it was just their experiences

Unfortunately there are parts of the Traveller community that do engage in long term criminal activity. Why is it so wrong to call this out?

Because there are parts of all communitites that do engage in long term criminal activity.
But those entire communities are not called out.

oh yes they are,what about the recent stabbings in London

I'm defending bugger all btw, but it was the work of two induviduals, not an entire community, maybe I should brick the window of the local kebab shop ... Well they are muslim, so they must have been involved in some terrorist atrocity get an effing grip

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/12/too-many-gypsies-travellers-prison-education

imagine if hed been Scottish or from Liverpool or was Asian would we then be bashing everyone from those walks of life

Would they be out building tributes and issuing threats? If so yes they'd be as bad.

I would hope that most people would be deeply embarrassed to have a relation who made their living by robbing elderly & vulnerable people, and boasting about it on social media.

the man that died was related to a family that have been convicted of the same crimes,so yes there was a common thread

Marge, are you saying if the career burglar had been 78 and the victim with the disabled wife 38?

Unlikely as that scenario is to present itself, yes. If you’re being threatened in your own home and you are defending your disabled spouse I think you’ve every right to pick up the career burglars weapon on choice.

It doesn’t matter what religion or culture the career burglar identifies with.

Mydoghatesthebath

How odd that you extrapolate people here invoking "political correctness" (whatever that means to "defend the indefensible".

I haven't seen one comment on this thread from anyone who say that it is was a good to leave those flowers/tributes at that particular spot. There is not one comment defending the actions of the burglar.

There are a few who don't feel this situation is grounds for smearing the entire traveller community/ethnic group for this burglar's actions. It's patently obvious from your Telford/Rotherham allusion that you don't have a problem condemning entire groups of people simply because some within that group do bad things. If you want to call it "political correctness" that up to you, but I would rather be "politically correct" than be thought of as unthinking, reactionary and prejudiced.

I'm white British caucasian and I've had far more unpleasant/abusive experiences at the hands of white British caucasians than any other group of people by a country mile. In spite of this, I don't feel that I am politically correct by feeling that not all white British caucasians are to be condemned because of their, at times, "indefensible" actions.

Racism against Travellers and Gypsies is still permissible – even in parliament
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/11/racism-travellers-gypsies-parliament-mps-poll

If I were a Traveller facing constant hostility, I might flout the rules too
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/21/traveller-facing-hostility-flout-rules-norfolk

Clearly, it's not an easy community relationship problem to solve, but blaming entire communities for the behaviour of a few of them isn't the answer.

Boone’s being bigoted! Stop trying to shut down the debate.

We had travelers recently on my sons work car park. They broke the gate posts and caused damage to the barrier mechanism to try and gain access. Simple fact. The family of this dead guy were career criminals. And travellers. Are all travellers criminals, no idea but my sense of reason says not. However the ones I have encountered are.

To add is it ok to call their way of life deeply and disturbingly mysogynistic? Because it clearly is. But hey ho let’s ignore that too if it makes one middle class do Gooder pearl clutch

I am sure not all travellers are difficult. Some must want to live their lives peacefully. the ones I've had to deal with have mostly been aggressive, with zero respect for the law/other people's property, and have left a huge mess and bill behind them. Often they will effectively blackmail the land owner by asking for thousands of £££s to leave without a court order. You only have to look online for pictures and costs; it can be horrific. I've come across a few pleasant groups who are quiet and cause no trouble at all, but sadly they are the minority in my personal experience

There's a reason why nobody wants travellers on their land - and it's because you simply don't know which type of group you're going to get, so people fear the troublesome type. I think that fear is at the root of it.

miff

I didn’t condemn the whole community as criminals but as unpleasant in their treatment of women yes. I do condemn.

Regards Rotherham no one has condemned the whole Asian so called Muslim community? Why would they as it’s clearky stupid.

Would you prefer to be politically correct or call out mysogynistic paedophilic behaviour?? Would you prefer to ignore facts like in Telford and Rotherham? I wouldn’t

No I think plain facts are at the route of it

The display of flowers is clearly meant to be intimidation.

Nasty low life criminal surrounded by nasty low life criminal friends/relatives. Can't get too upset he is dead.

Here @Lweji is this better for you?

Unfortunately there are parts of the Traveller community and there are also issues with parts of other communities that do engage in long term criminal activity. Why is it so wrong to call this out?

Better? Frankly, I thought that this went without saying but I personally do find the behaviour of his family who were openly engaged in criminal behaviour, in regard to "mourning" this man's death, distasteful.

@Andromeida59

Yes, thank you.

I do think that some things do need to be said.