To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[frankchickens]

This is an attempt to intimidate the innocent family. Flowers should be removed - isn’t it littering?

i can see this situation at the pensioners road getting very nasty

there has to be a 24/7 police presence at the moment

That's pretty typical across the country. Farm thefts are pretty common and travellers are not the only culprits. I use padlocks, gates and 2 ton boulders on my land, but as much to keep quad bikers out as to prevent theft (trees being hard to steal).

I can't believe the handwringing twittering of the defenders of this awful man and his equally awful family. It was a terrible thing to target pensioners and it is a terrible thing for his family and 'community ' to harass the poor man. This mawkish display of flowers, a
ridiculous balloons and teddies ffs was put there as two fingers to civilised society and all praise is due to the man who took it upon himself to take it down. For those sqealing bigotry ( and yes, mob and pitchforks were also quoted 😒) I suggest you recognise that these people don't give a flying f about your keyboard warrior activities on their behalf and would think you weak and deserving of exploitation.

What are you on about BunBun? Who on this thread are defending this man or his family?

The burglar was a criminal, the pensioner was a victim BUT he is not a hero. If this thread is a microcosm of the views of the UK as a whole then I fear for society ... Not a lot of you are getting the point ... We cannot condemn a community as a whole for acts carried out by a few, otherwise society would go to hell in a handcart. I've had experience of travellers in fact my great grandparents were travellers .. . What does that make me

In not defending what he did, but this bigoted ranting does nothing to help

@miffytherabbit1974 - you might have said that 'you accept some people have a different view' but you started your comments by saying you couldn't believe how racist and anti-traveller people were being. The majority of whom were giving their own personal experiences of the traveller community, that happened to differ from yours. It's a bit disingenuous to backtrack on those comments now.

I hate this use of the word 'community'. It's time we treated people as individuals and judge their actions equally and accordingly. There should be a police officer at the 'shrine'. I hate people saying substituting 'Scots' for travellers to make a point.

@stepawayfromgoogle taking what you said ,we can take any crime and tell horror stories about the race or whatever about people from the same group. I don't bloody think so.

Not a lot of you are getting the point ... We cannot condemn a community as a whole for acts carried out by a few, otherwise society would go to hell in a handcart

It's not just a few though. In my town it's the majority.

.! It's clumsy stereotyping at best and blatant bigotry at its worse.I've had it for being Scottish, for being female and for being gay,

It's clumsy stereotyping at best and blatant bigotry at its worse

Try living in amongst it before you condemn others. They're hated for a reason.

slightly of topic but you can bet that the other guy billy Jeeves is hiding out on a traveller site

meaning that he wont be caught as the Police wont set foot on a travellers site

that sums it up to me

Henry Vincent has been vilified in the press - with some justification, he doesn't sound a man of high morals. Perhaps his family are trying to intimidate Richard Osborn-Brooks or, perhaps, they're trying to signal that, despite his many - and widely publicised - flaws, he meant something to them and they will miss him and that's why they are choosing to leave tributes in a very public place.

I know very little about the Traveller community and don't want to get into an argument about what "they're" like but Vincent's crimes have been much discussed and his death dismissed as something that he deserved (given the circumstances, as someone upthread pointed out, it might not have been deserved but could have been seen as a risk of the job). If I were grieving him, I might want people to know there was more to him than just a life of crime.

So if the burglar was an innocent 18 year old caught up in being a bad gang of people and was from a middle class family would you still feel the same?

Margaret Thatcher did after all have a close relationship with a brutal dictator. One Agusto Pinochet.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet#Human_rights_violations
www.itv.com/news/update/2013-04-09/thatcher-and-pinochet-enjoyed-close-relationship/

Perhaps you might want to look at this comic strip.

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

"@miffytherabbit1974 - you might have said that 'you accept some people have a different view' but you started your comments by saying you couldn't believe how racist and anti-traveller people were being. The majority of whom were giving their own personal experiences of the traveller community, that happened to differ from yours. It's a bit disingenuous to backtrack on those comments now."

No I didn't. In the first instance/comment left, I said "I’m not suggesting that it is the case in this particular thread on Mumsnet, but there is often a free-for-all bigot-fest when travellers are involved in something, and I’m frankly fed up of seeing it..." and that people in red and black top tabloids and social media had made pejorative remarks.

After leaving this comment, as the thread developed, a small few people did go on to make comments that could be read as tarring a group with the same brush/smearing a community. I defended my original position, like many other would have. If you feel that is "back-tracking" that's up to you.

I didn't doubt, question or make any criticism or observation about other people's personal experiences, apart from to say that it left me uncomfortable that an entire community was, in certain comments, being besmirched off the back of a "bad experience." I made the point that I had experienced bad experiences myself from people from other backgrounds to my own, but that I didn't feel it made it ok for me to then label that entire group as bad. If anything, I had my own experiences questioned by a number of people - assuming incorrectly that I'd never "experienced" the traveller community, and that the travellers I'd had encounters with must've been a "different" type of traveller.

I'm getting tired out with this debate, but for the sake of repetition, my point was very straightforward - that labelling an entire community/ethnic group based off individuals within that group being responsible for a negative or bad experience made me feel very uncomfortable. I've said more times than I can be bothered to remember over these posts that I accept and respect other people have had a different experience. It would've been nice if that sentiment could've been extended out to me from people with a different view, but that clearly isn't going to happen here.

Regardless of what he has done, he's still somebodies son.
Maybe if his parents had done their job and raised him to be a decent person he wouln’t have died whilst breaking in to someone’s home.

if he was a burglar then he would not be innocent would he

I'm in my 60s and every single experience I'v had with Irish travellers (not gypsies) has been bad.

They conned my parents out of thousands for "repairs" when my father was getting over a heart op. I attempted to teach some of their children and was sworn at and spat at.

They invade our local parks 2 or 3 times a year and leave piles of shit everywhere. They intimidate householders into providing them with water then try to con money out of them. They set their dogs on local animals, steal from the farms, and rob local shops. They just walk in and take what they want and walk out again. Every time they come.

If I ever meet a decent one I'll let you know.

@StepAwayFromGoogle

Sorry, my last comment meant to have your profile name tagged in it. I can't go back and fix it.

Am I missing something? If he wasn't breaking the law then he wouldn't have been in someone's house without permission and stealing their stuff, if he'd been at home with his family he wouldn't have been in the house to get stabbed.

So if the burglar was an innocent 18 year old caught up in being a bad gang of people and was from a middle class family would you still feel the same?

It has nothing to do with him being middle class vs. working class, white British vs. Traveller.

It's the fact that he was a career criminal - not a young person coerced by a gang - who chose to break into a house and threaten its elderly inhabitants with a screwdriver.

The family have a right to grieve, but taking the circumstances into account I see it as intimidation. Also they are using someone else's property to attach the flowers to.

Plain clothes police have been removing some of the Osborn-Brooks possessions for them, but not being able to return home is a dreadful situation and must be extremely worrying for other residents. I wonder if the new tributes will be removed.

So if the burglar was an innocent 18 year old caught up in being a bad gang of people and was from a middle class family would you still feel the same?

if he was a burglar then he would not be innocent would he