To think if being "body positive" was promoting anorexia...

[Piglatin]

...everyone would be up in arms? Yet I see the phrase being used more and more on social media by obese women. I don't understand why being "thick", "curvy", "plus size", "voluptuous" are just other ways to avoid saying fat, yet if skeletal women were posting things about being "body positive" most people would see how damaging it is. Are we all meant to pretend that being unhealthily overweight is OK now?!

having my daughter I recently lost a stone in around 10-12 weeks. I had work colleagues and someone on social media commenting about how I'm "wasting away" and "don't lose too much more"..

That's a pretty big weight loss quite quickly. I think most people would comment out of concern. Not because they thought you were too thin, but because rapid weight loss is generally a sign something's wrong.

I've said it before on these threads and I'll say it again; anyone who genuinely thinks that being fat is in any way encouraged/ accepted/ celebrated, had clearly never been overweight.

Jeez @op, your colleagues sound bonkers! Well done on losing that weight. That’s clearly what your weirdo colleagues MEANT to say ! Good for you.

It’s not “too quick” though. A stone in 12 weeks is about right isn’t it? Hard obviously, but I always thought it was considered totally fine to lose 1-2lbs per week.

That's a pretty big weight loss quite quickly

A stone in 3 months after having a baby? It's pretty normal, and I still have more to lose

you "love the skin you're in"

And there you have it.
I shall love my skin, you can love your skin, and neither of us need worry about what anyone else thinks of their own skin, or curves.

I also think there is a massive difference between accepting that you are fat and celebrating obesity! Because for you to suggest that being body positive is the same as celebrating obesity seounds like you think all fat girls should be hiding away at home until they get thin.

I was a dress size 4, I’m now a size 12/14 and so I have been at the rough end of comments about my weight when I was skinny, but being skinny didnt give me any right to be rude about how other people chose to live.

So to answer your original question, I think you’re being unfair to compare a MH illness to people who are happy with being a bit or a lot overweight. Nobody celebrates MH issues, but being fat is some folks own choice.

I think there's a dichotomy between the media and real life. In the media, the "ideal" woman is portrayed as flawless, a size 4/6, long glossy hair etc. Anyone who's over size 10 is deemed to be fat.

Yet in real life, obesity has become normalised. I used to be obese, then I lost weight and went down to a safe BMI and was a size 12. Everyone started saying to me that I had got "too thin" and "didnt look well". I still weighed over 10 stone (I'm only 5'5") and was a size 12. That was seen as thin/underweight by friends and colleagues. I was really shocked. I'd spent my 20s being about 9 - 9 1/2 stone and no one ever commented that I was too thin. I'm now in my 50s and society is accepting that women are much bigger than 30 years ago.

Obesity comes with a myriad of health problems. Yes, I know that some womrn claim to be 14 stone and healthy, and I'm very aware that there are unhealthy women who ae a size 10. But exceptions aside, on the whole having a BMI of 30+ means you are more likely to develop health problems.
However, acknowleding facts like these leaves you open to accusations of fat-shaming.

^THIS^

I am overweight. I went down from almost morbidly obese to almost obese.

I still have 2-3 stones to lose.

However, the number of people who are now telling me I'm thin enough (BMI 29.5) is ridiculous. I am obviously still overweight and I am pretty unhealthy.

Living in one of the unhealthiest places in the West Midlands, obese has become normal.

Whole families, teenage girls included, are morbidly obese and see nothing wrong with it.

The only time I've seen #bopo posts is in relation to obese models like Tess Halliday.

Like any subject, people tend to live in their own echo chambers these days, tend to find people who reflect their views and opinions and tend only to mix with people who support and reinforce their looks/appearance/weight/opinions/world views.

I'm still about 1.5-2 stone overweight.

Are you overweight by the BMI index or by what you see as the ideal weight?

I totally agree with you OP. I hate this culture where we have to pussyfoot around people. If someone I care about is obese I can’t mention it incase it puts them into a downward spiral of anxiety.

Why would you mention it? Do you think they are unaware of the size of their body?

A stone in 3 months after having a baby?

Depending on your body type and where you lost it, especially after them having seen you pregnant for 9 months, it could look quite dramatic.

For me a stone looks like nothing, for other's it's a massive transformation.

Why would you mention it? Do you think they are unaware of the size of their body?

Ha! A bit like if someone has something stuck in their teeth. “OMG, did you know you’re obese”?

I don't think it is helpful to decide that all threads like this are deliberately goady or fat shaming.

And I say that as someone verging on an obese bmi, who has been overweight nearly my whole adult life and struggled with all the associated problems. But I am NOT defensive about being fat. If someone yelled "hey fatty" at me in the street too right I would be furious but this conversation has got to be had about the normalising of and acceptance of obesity!

I agree that we don't see enough size 12-14 women on TV, enough middle aged or grey haired women or enough women not caked in makeup.

If someone I care about is obese I can’t mention it incase it puts them into a downward spiral of anxiety.

Er why would you mention it

A stone in 3 months after having a baby?

That is normal. I only gained 18lb in pregnancy and it was gone a week after delivery. A stone in three months is fine!

Oh my goodness surely you understand that anorexia is far more dangerous than being slightly overweight? And also that many people who are a completely healthy weight are labelled 'fat'?
That is what 'body positivity' is trying to address. Its also trying to get people who are large enough for it to impact on their health to not be so ashamed that they cannot go out.... because the more confidence they have the more likely they are to embrace a healthier lifestyle such as walking places or going to the gym.

Shaming people does not achieve anything at all. If someone feels terrible about themselves then they are unlikely to even try to embrace a healthier lifestyle. Also if someone has unrealistic expectations of how they should look then they are unlikely to be able to embrace a healthy lifestyle because it will seem like a lost cause.
Presenting women who are not a standard model size, as beautiful is actually very helpful in promoting good health.

I don't think obesity has been normalised. I think there is a tendency to label people who are a healthy weight as fat because they are not at or near the bottom of the healthy range for their height which is what is seen as desirable.

This from Himalaya:

I agree that we don't see enough size 12-14 women on TV, enough middle aged or grey haired women or enough women not caked in makeup.

Women that we see in films or in the media are all expected and judged on their size - look for example at Judy Finnegan in her bloody sixties you'd think she could just be allowed to be herself, or the pictures of Pierce Brosnans wife - whereas men are not, or at least not so much. This is replicated through films - watch Pixels ( please don't) where middle aged tubby men seem entitled to form relationships with silent and thin women.

I do worry too that body positivity normalises obesity. But then for things like my running magazine - I really liked it when they used a plus sized model on the cover rather than the usual size 8-10s. I'd like it even more if they'd have the courage to post an average sized 14 woman there.

It's not about whether being fat or thin is healthy. It's about recognising that someone else's health isn't your business and that you don't get to use it as a way of commenting on others.

Lots and lots of things besides being overweight are incredibly unhealthy. As well as the obvious ones - smoking and drinking - there is eating meat, taking recreational drugs, not exercising, consuming too much sugar, riding motorbikes, sitting for eight hours a day etc etc etc. Unless you're also writing high and mighty posts about the people who do these things, you're just fat shaming because criticising people for their weight is socially acceptable.

Body positivity isn't saying 'being fat is great and everyone should do it'. It's saying that fat isn't a moral flaw. That you aren't less worthy or deserving of respect because you are fat. That fat isn't hideous or disgusting. That regardless of whether you are conventionally attractive OR healthy, you're still a human who should be respected and given dignity.

If you disagree with that then honestly, you're just not a good person.

I don't think having the view that obesity is not physically attractive is 'shaming'.

I absolutely acknowledge that I have some entrenched ideas about what is 'attractive' or not. And that may correlate with a societal view of what is attractive or not.

But I don't see Tess Holidays pictures as 'attractive'. I think she has a very pretty face but not pretty enough that she would be a model if she wasn't so hugely overweight.

I think attractiveness and sexual chemistry involves so many factors related to personality, shared interests and morals etc so I can completely see how an obese person can be attractive in those terms (I fell in love with an obese man) but to actually view an obese body as attractive in itself, I don't. I don't think many people do unless they have a specific liking for obese bodies.

I genuinely don't think that is media-driven, I think most people think younger, slimmer, healthier looking bodies and people are more visually attractive.

I don't find extremely thin bodies attractive but I don't feel I'm expected to. The male catwalk models aren't usually the frame I would be attracted to and I don't see many men saying they like very thin women either.

So I don't believe the very thin catwalk types of models are the ideal. I think it's more the Kardashian type (and that's still unrealistic for a lot of people) that is popular.

I haven't seen any underweight catwalk models portrayed as 'fab' or 'sexy' but loads of overweight and obese ones. Buzzfeed is a particular offender here.

The male catwalk models aren't usually the frame I would be attracted to and I don't see many men saying they like very thin women either.
No it actually tends to be women who fetishise thinness.

Oh my goodness surely you understand that anorexia is far more dangerous than being slightly overweight?

But thats two completely different things. Being slightly underweight is not neccesarily far more dangerous than being slightly overweight.
The only reason being extremely underweight or having anorexia is more dangerous than being extremely overweight is there isnt as much room to be underweight and your health can deteriorate much more quickly.
Most people who are 10+ stone overweight will still be alive, whereas unless your are over 6ft then 10 stone itself is a healthy weight and it would never be possible for someone to be alive and become underweight by 10+ stone. You could lose a few stone in a month and that could be enough kill your whereas you could live decades gaining much more weight and killing yourself much more slowly.
Long term being extremely overweight and being extremely underweight have the same outcome, one is not more desirable than the other but at the moment death from obesity related illness is a much more widespread but not more serious problem than death from anorexia. Both are unacceptable, there is no need for people to be dying of these problems, both people need to be supported in getting to a healthy weight.

SerenDippitty - I'm not sure what your point is. A fetish is form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.

I think you're talking about a non-pathological desire to not be overweight. Which isn't a fetish in any way, shape or form.

That's where it gets weird. That some people think not being overweight or obese is a 'fetish'.

It's not.

I was almost 18 stone and teetering on morbid obesity at my heaviest. All I did was sit around the house all day with my young DC eating. I would bake and cook a lot so it wasn’t all ‘junk’ food per se but I had a major problem with portion control (also had a fizzy drink addiction). My knees were absolutely fucked, I was out of breath walking up the stairs halfway and I was seriously depressed. I completely disagree that anyone that weight (or beyond) is healthy.

The problem with models like Tess Holliday is that she doesn’t only glorify morbid obesity but she tries to claim it is healthy. She posts the occasional video of her squatting at the gym and that is supposedly sufficient evidence that despite being 20 stone+ she is healthy. No she isn’t, nobody is at that size. She is at risk of a multitude of health problems and it’s only sheer luck she doesn’t already suffer from them although she is young and I am sure it will happen at some point. The sad thing is her eldest DS is also going the same way as so often happens. She has a pretty face but without her size I do not think she’d have a modelling career so sadly, she will likely feel the need to stay this way to keep her career going.

Size zero was almost promoted for a while in the 00’s then shut down for ‘glorifying eating disorders’. I personally see anorexia on a par with obesity. Overeating is also an eating disorder and people who over eat are also abusing their bodies. I don’t think either should be promoted. There is a calling to see ‘normal’ bodies on the catwalk/in advertisements but normal means a normal BMI, not over or underweight.

Great post @pinkvoid

I think you're talking about a non-pathological desire to not be overweight. Which isn't a fetish in any way, shape or form.

As I am sure you realised I meant a pathological desire to be as thin as possible. Which is not at all the same as a desire not to be overweight.