To think if being "body positive" was promoting anorexia...

[Piglatin]

...everyone would be up in arms? Yet I see the phrase being used more and more on social media by obese women. I don't understand why being "thick", "curvy", "plus size", "voluptuous" are just other ways to avoid saying fat, yet if skeletal women were posting things about being "body positive" most people would see how damaging it is. Are we all meant to pretend that being unhealthily overweight is OK now?!

It's saying that fat isn't a moral flaw. That you aren't less worthy or deserving of respect because you are fat. That fat isn't hideous or disgusting. That regardless of whether you are conventionally attractive OR healthy, you're still a human who should be respected and given dignity

This. And being fat IS seen as a moral failing. That is why otherwise ostensibly decent people feel able to say really gobsmackingly awful things to those they perceive as having "failed" in this respect. Because they feel morally superior. That they haven't "failed" in the same way and are therefore "better".

I agree op every extra piece of weight you can see on the outside is cover the visceral fat inside wrapped around organs. In this culture we are not allowed to pretend obese models may encounter health problems. I get called a stick insect and bones and scrawney and anorexic all the time and thats ok but me pointing out obesity isnt healthy i am told "yes but i can do the splits so i am healthier than you" when its just so inaccurate. And many overweight people claim its due to mental health problems so thats not a problem specifically for anorexics. Healthy weight should be hailed as beautiful and normal. Not people claiming "size 16 is the uk average so that means its healthy."

That said fat people can be beautiful nd models. I just hate the fake proclamations that they are healthy.

Size zero was almost promoted for a while in the 00’s then shut down for ‘glorifying eating disorders

It still is. Have you looked at a catwalk lately?

Has anyone here ever been backstage at a fashion show? The toilets are covered in shit because the models take laxatives to make themselves thinner.

It's a major problem. As is obesity.

There was a stoey recently with n online shop like asos. They had a model in her pants and she had a natural thigh gap. There was huge backlash and complaints saying she was promoting anorexia. She wsnt. She was a naturally slim normal shape. Thigh gaps do not mean too skinny.

It is actually less bad for you to be overweight (not obese) than it is to be very underweight. Especially if you then get ill, you have no reserves to draw on when underweight.

Good post, catspaws.

Martha, the model may have been slim, but what makes her a "normal" shape? what is "normal"? Is the healthy weight person without a thigh gap an abnormal shape? This is part of the problem, and I suspect one of the reasons for the whole body positivity thing.

@MarthaArthur as I'm tired of pointing out on MN visceral fat isn't just something that afflicts obese people, thin people can have it. Being obese doesn't always mean you have Visceral fat.

Thigh gaps just indicate you have wide hip bones and slim legs. I have narrow hip bones and muscly thighs, like a sprinter build, so a thigh gap never happens.

I didn't have a thigh gap even in my early 20s when I weighed not much more than 7stone. It's to do with the width of your pelvis not your size.

Seren: pathological means involving or caused by a physical or mental disorder.

If you're talking about anorexia then okay. If you're talking about women not wanting to be overweight or obese then that is neither a fetish of thinness nor a mental illness.

Why would you mention it? Do you think they are unaware of the size of their body?

For the same reasons you might have a conversation with someone you cared about regarding their drinking problem, heavy smoking habit or indeed anorexia? I don't think the PP was talking about dropping 'by the way, you're obese' into a random conversation (although the food in teeth comparison did make me laugh), so much as having a serious talk about how she doesn't want them to die from heart disease in their 40s.

My teenage DD is a size zero - in the US, which is where the concept came from, it's a 4 here. She has some growing to do yet but I can see it would be a perfectly healthy size for a petite woman! It would look very thin indeed if you're tall though.

Thigh gaps do not mean too skinny.

They can do if they are held up as an ideal and young girls who are not built to have one think that they can get one by lose g weight.

Actually *seren visceral fat increses the more fat you have around your stomach. All people have a small ammount but the bigger you get the moreyou get.

And a normal shape is just that. A normal shape neither too big nor too small. Not a specific shape that every person must conform too. There is a variety of normal shapes.

I was amazed watching Say Yes to the Dress yesterday , not that more than half the brides were plus sized, but that US stores seemed not to cater for them very well.

Betty thats so weird you would have thought the US would have a bigger plus size range

There seemed to be only a handful of dresses to choose from for the larger women, out of hundreds in the shop.

For the same reasons you might have a conversation with someone you cared about regarding their drinking problem, heavy smoking habit or indeed anorexia?

But people like that are never actually concerned about health. If they were, they’d talk about mental health, stress, workload, relationship issues etc etc.

People are more than their bodies, so why would you need to ‘mention’ their obesity?

Actually seren visceral fat increses the more fat you have around your stomach. All people have a small ammount but the bigger you get the moreyou get.*
No that is not true. It depends on your shape. Someone hourglass shaped even if overweight could have less visceral fat than a smaller apple shaped person.

Also, everyone pointing out that being very overweight is less dangerous than being very underweight, in the short term that's obviously true, but it's like comparing a heroin addiction to chain smoking. Sure if you smoke a lot you can live a normal life and you're not likely to suddenly drop dead from a tobacco overdose, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore the health risks and accuse people who are concerned by them of shaming smokers or bringing them up solely to feel morally superior (although some people are like that, of course). In the end there's a good chance that smoking heavily will still kill you, it'll just take longer.

When I watch an underwear ad celebrating the 'curves' of a severely overweight woman, I wonder how happy we would be to see underwear ads of severely underweight women, saying 'celebrate your bones - your beautiful skeletal structure...'.

We agree that it is unhealthy to be very overweight or underweight. We also agree that our bodies are our bodies and we should (personally) love them. We should however not be celebrating the idea of either - in any way.

This is a tricky one.
My personal belief is that it's not to promote an "unhealthy body weight", it's more of a stance against fat shaming which is a nice change because it may change a bigger girls perception on herself if she has a self hate mindset.
I believe many people who themselves are a little on the overweight side find it a bit shocking how someone their weight or a lot bigger can be so confident and possibly envy their confidence to some extent.
It's good in the sense it uplifts and empowers women to not be so cruel and abusive to themselves regarding their appearance.
I've been both obese/"normal weight" and now I'm pregnant so it was a bit daunting to start gaining weight again after having lost so much weight previously but it's nice to see women with a bit of a tummy/love handles celebrate their size and not be so self conscious as it enables others to feel less judgemental of ourselves too.

• We should however not be promoting the idea of either - that should have said.

But people like that are never actually concerned about health.

I think perhaps we're talking at cross-purposes - I don't mean judging your random overweight coworker for eating chocolate, say, and claiming you're just looking out for their health. I was understanding the PP to mean she was concerned about a family member or close friend. Having been on both the giving and receiving end of similar 'come to Jesus' talks, I can assure you that they very much do come from a place of genuine care, and in some cases fear that the recipient is literally killing themself through whatever they're doing.