To think if being "body positive" was promoting anorexia...

[Piglatin]

...everyone would be up in arms? Yet I see the phrase being used more and more on social media by obese women. I don't understand why being "thick", "curvy", "plus size", "voluptuous" are just other ways to avoid saying fat, yet if skeletal women were posting things about being "body positive" most people would see how damaging it is. Are we all meant to pretend that being unhealthily overweight is OK now?!

^ Quite. Being slim is the Holy Grail of signifiers of life "success". Always has been. Always will be.

This shows how insidious the change is. Fast forward another 30ish years... I bet the image won't be slimmer.

@BroomStickofLove I totally agree, but that's not what's happening.

I mean the clothing change/ acceptance. The movement seems to be encouraging people NOT to change.

Quite. Being slim is the Holy Grail of signifiers of life "success". Always has been. Always will be.

Not true at all. Until the last century being fat was a signifier of success. Still is in many cultures. Thin is what poor people who can't afford food are.

I don't think it necessarily encourages pep,e to be overweight, but it encourages them to be totally happy with being overweight/ obese and not to do anything about it. To remain overweight and unhealthy.

Complicated one. In our society it can require a fair bit of self control to eat healthily, given the vast array of unhealthy foods that are available so readily and the fact that people on TV/in movies appear to be eating them all the time. If all people lived on a bland but nutritionally sound diet (think District 13 in the Hunger Games) with sugary and fatty foods unavailable, as the majority of wild animals do, people would be thinner than the maximum 'healthy' weight prescribed by the NHS in most cases, barring those with physiological reasons for being overweight. I do think we have forgotten how skinny healthy can look. Most of the people we see on TV and in films are a healthy weight. If I exercised daily and made a concerted effort to eat a balanced diet with the right number of calories, I could have the same body shape as many of the women I see on TV and in film, with a Bmi still classed as healthy. I've done it before. I don't now because I love cake, want to eat it when the people I'm with do and can't be bothered to exercise that much! Also because, although my body isn't brilliant, it's good enough by modern standards so I feel no need to improve it. If overweight were to become the standard size represented by media, I wonder if fewer currently healthy-sized people would be willing to exercise the self control needed to avoid becoming overweight?

Yet. The way it's going they will soon probably

Thats right, we're all going to be enormous vicious Feminazis. Probably trans as well

If you want to "celebrate yourself" and are significantly under or overweight, pick something else about yourself, a good quality and not one that is inherently unhealthy.

You mean like a good sense of humour, a bubbly personality or great hair? I have all of these (ok maybe not the hair one) and yet unaccountably I still get fat-shamed by strangers on a regular basis. It's like the fat is somehow all they can see, can't they see how bubbly I am?

I think you misunderstand.
People are what they are sometimes. It's a good thing to love and respect yourself regardless.
Better to have body positivity at any weight, as opposed to self hatred or eating disorders at either end of the spectrum.

I think there's a dichotomy between the media and real life. In the media, the "ideal" woman is portrayed as flawless, a size 4/6, long glossy hair etc. Anyone who's over size 10 is deemed to be fat.

Yet in real life, obesity has become normalised. I used to be obese, then I lost weight and went down to a safe BMI and was a size 12. Everyone started saying to me that I had got "too thin" and "didnt look well". I still weighed over 10 stone (I'm only 5'5") and was a size 12. That was seen as thin/underweight by friends and colleagues. I was really shocked. I'd spent my 20s being about 9 - 9 1/2 stone and no one ever commented that I was too thin. I'm now in my 50s and society is accepting that women are much bigger than 30 years ago.

Obesity comes with a myriad of health problems. Yes, I know that some womrn claim to be 14 stone and healthy, and I'm very aware that there are unhealthy women who ae a size 10. But exceptions aside, on the whole having a BMI of 30+ means you are more likely to develop health problems.
However, acknowleding facts like these leaves you open to accusations of fat-shaming.

There is increasing pressure NOT to diet to a healthy weight.

There is increasing pressure not to diet because study after study after study is showing that dieting doesn't work. In fact 98% of people who lose weight through dieting will gain it back and more afterwards and because a constant cycle of dieting/gaining/dieting/gaining is even more unhealthy than being fat in the first place.
It's not because being fat is suddenly a great thing.

“Oh my god, look at these obese people saying they’re happy with their bodies - pass me the KFC bucket” said no teenager ever

Nothing to do with their size tbh, but it just sounds like another annoying social media thing. It would irritate me regardless of size. It’s lovely to celebrate your body, whatever size / new eyebrows / pouting expertise, but fgs couldn’t you do it in private ?

I always think, if someone is going to be severely overweight anyway, then they might as well be happy about it if possible, so I think the op is a little bit U. I’m sure I’ve heard it argued a lot that body confidence leads to better self care, which then leads to healthier lifestyle choices. Makes sense to me.

Most of the people we see on TV and in films are a healthy weight

Hahahaha! Thanks for proving my point.

And definitely this - my mum is petite and slim. Walks every day, eats well, does yoga and is generally just very healthy. She has a healthy bmi and always has people commenting on how thin she is, usually in a derogatory way. Its bizarre.

But a "healthy BMI* could mean minimum healthy weight for height. That doesn't mean it is healthy for that particular individual. Depends on body type and build.

I have always thought it sick that Slimming World and the like will accept anyone who wants to lose weight regardless of whether they need to.

As for being told you are “too thin” as a size 12, 5’5” tall . I’ve been a lot smaller and am a good few inches taller and not once did I get told I was too thin by anyone. I’m now a bit chubby, as I’ve just given birth and nobody’s commented on that either, (would they dare)?!

Thats right, we're all going to be enormous vicious Feminazis. Probably trans as well

Nope. That's come directly from you. Notebook here has posted anything like this.

Not true at all. Until the last century being fat was a signifier of success. Still is in many cultures. Thin is what poor people who can't afford food are.

You are correct about the past. My bad. Not today though. To be overweight is a hideous crime. You don't have to do much reading on Mumsnet to see the evidence.

NC to be goady, but pombears and elderly Korean lady.

There is a minority of the BodyPosi/fat acceptance movement that is in complete denial about obesity having a detrimental effect on health and that discourages people from trying to achieve a healthy weight as it's a form of 'fat shaming'. I do also know a couple of people who are obese by BMI and want to lose weight, but are reluctant to do so as they've been told that they would be buying into 'diet culture bullshit', even if they didn't follow a commercial diet plan. That stuff reminds me a lot of the pro-ana sites I used to read, and my own adamance that collapsing after walking up a hill was because of heatstroke and had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I weighed six stone three at 5'4"

However, I think it's a tiny minority of the population that believes obesity has no health effects, just as it's a tiny minority who are anorexic. As public health crises go, I'm not overly worried about this one (I mean the BodyPosi stuff specifically, not obesity in general).

There is a massive difference between being overweight/obese and other unhealthy behaviors like smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. Both psychologically and physically.

For one, there is a genetic aspect to it. Certain people have genes that make them process insulin differently than other people, this contributes to obesity.

Second, many people who are overweight/obese will have struggled with their weights since childhood, so the idea that being fat is something you choose like smoking a cigarette or having a drink is very insulting. Struggling with their weight was never a conscious decision for them. Moreover, for many women, the pressure to restrict food/focus on our bodies will have begun in childhood, so (like me) we will have had messed up eating habits even if we were a healthy weight as children because we never learned to eat normally.

Thirdly, we have to eat. No matter what, we have to eat and right now the environment out there is designed to make us fat. It's easier to buy crap than it is to buy cigarettes or booze, and crap has the same effect on our bodies in a lot of ways. For some losing weight would be like a heroin addict trying to quit whilst trapped in a room full of heroin and no way out.

Fourthly, again environment. Many, myself included, are juggling full time jobs, kids, long commutes, relationships that make healthy eating/exercise difficult. (not impossible, but it requires effort that might be hard to find after a long day of work).

Fifthly, our society isn't actually focused on health. And you see this in comments on Mumsnet all the time. You can't just exercise and eat healthy, you HAVE to be thin as well, or you're a failure. For me, I jog for 40 minutes a day, I generally eat healthy foods, and doing that my weight settles at about 1.5 stone overweight and a size 14/16. Medically I'm perfectly healthy. I don't smoke, I'm not a heavy drinker, I don't do drugs. But society tells me I'm not good enough, I need to be a healthy BMI (really I need to be the lower end of a healthy BMI).

We live in a society that promotes orthorexia, extreme exercise, etc as something to strive for, rather than health, and that's why movements like the body positivity one are so popular. Most of us can't be body builders or stick to strict diets. We're human.

Oh, and Sixthly, there's A LOT of money to be made from fat people. The diet industry relies on failure.

My dh has always been really slim, eats a lot but never seems to put on weight. When he was ill with something, the Drs focused in on his bmi, he had blood tests galore and weigh ins etc. It was decided he was perfectly healthy. My mum is overweight, she has numerous problems with her knees, gallbladder and blood sugar levels. Other than being told it would improve if she lost weight she has not been given any help to lose weight. I think it is much easier to tell someone they are too skinny than to tell someone they are to fat. Why can't we just promote healthy sizes?

Going back to the point about people thinking a healthy weight is underweight - after having my daughter I recently lost a stone in around 10-12 weeks. I had work colleagues and someone on social media commenting about how I'm "wasting away" and "don't lose too much more"... I'm still about 1.5-2 stone overweight. It's just weird. I am nowhere near 'thin' or wasting away, infact I look healthier than ever and am happy with my size, but I won't lie and say that it makes me feel more self conscious when people tell me I'm wasting away. It doesn't encourage a healthy mindset.
On the flip side, if someone put on a stone would they comment on that? "don't keep eating, you're really piling the pounds on"?!

You are correct about the past. My bad. Not today though. To be overweight is a hideous crime. You don't have to do much reading on Mumsnet to see the evidence.

I agree entirely. Problem with threads like these is that they attract people with major issues about eating and body image. Although it's more common to see the people posting that only the lower end of a healthy BMI is healthy than morbidly obese is healthy.

I totally agree with you OP. I hate this culture where we have to pussyfoot around people. If someone I care about is obese I can’t mention it incase it puts them into a downward spiral of anxiety. So I just have to sit back and watch them get bigger and bigger and pretend to be supportive to avoid being accused of body shaming. It’s bullshit. If someone in my family or social group was anorexic then i’d Have no qualms in talking to them and trying to get them some proper help, but when it’s to do with obesity we all have to keep hush hush about it and congratulate them for being body positive