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Original poster

78 pensioner arrested for fatally stabbing burglar in his own home

999 replies

SShaming · 04/04/2018 12:20

2 burglars break into a 78 year old man’s home armed with screwdriver.

Forces owner into the kitchen whilst one of them goes upstairs.

A fight ensues, leaving pensioner with injuries to his arm and burglary is fatally stabbed. Perhaps with his own screwdriver although this is TBC.

Police arrest pensioner.

On what planet is this right?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Gromance02 · 04/04/2018 13:38

The dead man was in a place he shouldn’t have been, stealing someone else’s property yy to this. The world is a better place without people like him in it. All you easy-going lefties make me want to vomit. The pensioner didn't know whether they were after his property or his life. He reacted as he did. I'd like to think my DF would do the same thing if put in such a horrific position.

Nicknacky · 04/04/2018 13:39

Not one person has said they feel sympathy for the housebreaker, not one.

Vomit away.

Wonkydonkey44 · 04/04/2018 13:40

We were burgled they gave no thought to me and my family . I always say it was their saving grace I wasn’t in when it happened because I know I would have attacked them . If u come in my house expect to be tackled.
I hope he’s home free again shortly .

missbattenburg · 04/04/2018 13:41

again, you can investigate without arresting the man

You can. Unless you have reasonable grounds to believe they committed a crime. Maybe the police do have reasonable cause. Maybe they are waiting until it IS proven they were burglars. Maybe they know more about what happened in that house than we do. Crazy though, huh?

In crimes as serious as murder it is probably in the pensioner's favour to be formally arrested because at that point he is entitled to legal representation (i.e. a solicitor) to help him. It also ensures the custody officer at the station reviews the case and provides verification that there is reasonable grounds to arrest or they must release him - thus bringing a swift end to the whole business. Finally, it secures evidence that he may need to rely on to prove innocence - such as photos of his injuries, fingerprints on the weapon etc.

Maybe this is just a frail old victim who was terrified at finding two strange men in the house, struggled and stabbed them with their own screwdriver. Even so, what's the point of being outraged before knowing there is anything to be outraged about?

SlowlyShrinking · 04/04/2018 13:42

And all the weeping hearts on here, bear in mind you have no real idea how you would behave if you honestly felt your family or your life were in danger. They should not have been there so this is the consequence of their actions, not the OAP

No one is saying that the man was necessarily wrong to have defended himself, if that’s what happened. People are saying that the circumstances need to be investigated, because someone died. Surely that’s not too difficult to understand?

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 04/04/2018 13:42

I think people should remind themselves of the full facts of the Tony Martin case. He was convicted by a jury of murder (only reduced to manslaughter on appeal due diminished responsibility because of his poor mental health). Pre planned attack using illegal pump action shot gun. Not a self defence situation at all. He didn’t really fear for his life just wanted to punish the burglars.

Now clearly there’s nothing to suggest similar circumstances apply here. But they might and that’s why a Police investigation is needed.

DGRossetti · 04/04/2018 13:42

There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law. Read guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service.

This is where I have a bit of a problem with the law ... it all sounds very nice and settled. But inevitably the decision as to what was "reasonable force" will be made in a nice jury room, with hot and cold drinks, and biscuits (halal and vegan available obviously) with a lot of naice folks who will have absolutely no idea WFT the person now on trial must have been feeling at the time they were forced to decide whether to tackle an intruder, or decide on the songs for their funeral.

Things that seem unreasonable now, might have been eminently reasonable then.

UncleNugget · 04/04/2018 13:42

Fucking hell some threads on MN are like wandering in to the comments for The Sun newspaper.

tiggytape · 04/04/2018 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lockheart · 04/04/2018 13:43

The dead man was in a place he shouldn’t have been, stealing someone else’s property

And how do you KNOW this was the case?

You don’t, because all anyone has are very brief initial reports. I note that the BBC uses ‘burglar’ in inverted commas, for instance.

I fully agree that if this was self defence then the man should be released without charge. But until we know the facts we can’t make that judgement.

Which is precisely why the police arrested him. An arrest is a process of inquiry, not criminal charges.

If you are so certain of what happened then perhaps you should share your crystal ball with the police and help get this chap released more quickly?

Bimbaloo · 04/04/2018 13:43

The weeping hearts seem to me to be the ones who'd be happy for the police to not even investigate the death, just pat the 78 year old on the head and send him on his way.

freakydeakydo · 04/04/2018 13:44

Good on the pensioner.

You want to be an arsehole and rob unsuspecting people then that's the price you pay.

Bimbaloo · 04/04/2018 13:45

All you easy-going lefties make me want to vomit.

You sound like an imbecile.

Bimbaloo · 04/04/2018 13:45

Fucking hell some threads on MN are like wandering in to the comments for The Sun newspaper.

Yup.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 04/04/2018 13:46

Of juries can see the point of view of defendants in course. Their purpose is you are tried by their peers. Every juror has worried about being burgled. Some have been victims of crime themselves.

Viviennemary · 04/04/2018 13:46

I read a bit more about this. I do think the circumstances need to be investigated. The other burglar is now at large supposedly. And until he is found then the circumstances are unclear I'd say.

missbattenburg · 04/04/2018 13:47

And all the weeping hearts on here, bear in mind you have no real idea how you would behave if you honestly felt your family or your life were in danger. They should not have been there so this is the consequence of their actions, not the OAP

How do you KNOW they should not have been there? Every single newspaper report has put 'burglar' in inverted commas or used a quote to get round asserting for sure they were burglars. So how are you SO sure they were definitely burglars or should not have been there?

Because the 78 year old said that's what happened.

Maybe he is truthful and this is correct.

Maybe not.

All anyone is saying is, let the law use due process to find out which it is.

Bimbaloo · 04/04/2018 13:47

I've been burgled twice and I still think it's right the man was arrested in the first instance until the story is fully investigated. Some of you lot need to stop reading the Daily Mail and engage your brains.

Bluelady · 04/04/2018 13:48

The bleeding hearts here are the ones defending a man suspected of inflicting a fatal injury.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 04/04/2018 13:48

Burglaries have increased, burglars are never caught, neve prosecuted and if they do they get away with a slap on the wrist.

Police don’t even bother attending the premises.

So maybe if more burglars were caught, prosecuted and sentenced properly it would not have to come to this.

Police are barking at the wrong tree here.

ikeepaforkinmypurse · 04/04/2018 13:48

DGRossetti
excellent post

SouthernComforts · 04/04/2018 13:49

Bloody hell - burglars don't deserve a death sentence? Ok but surely that's the risk they take by making a living from breaking into people's homes while they sleep?

If they don't want to run that risk they could get a job and vastly reduce their chances of being stabbed to death.

I've no sympathy for thieving scumbags.

RawhideRingpiece · 04/04/2018 13:50

78 is old by anyone’s standards. Maybe not infirm but it’s definitely old.

PeanutButterCheesecake · 04/04/2018 13:52

Assuming it was a burglar, good riddance, one less on the streets. If its family see this...good.

missbattenburg · 04/04/2018 13:53

Police are barking at the wrong tree here.

Only if they WERE burglars. You literally have the word of a man you (presumably) don't know to prove that.

Maybe they were. Maybe the force was entirely reasonable.

Maybe they were not. Maybe they were his lovers, caught in a terrible love triangle and had finally decided to elope together and run off to the Bahamas to live happily ever after and the 78yr old couldn't bear for them to be happy without him so tried to kill them both.

Maybe they had recently bought the house from him and he, confused in his old age, sleep walked from his new OAP flat to his old house, letting himself in with a key he had failed to surrender. Finding two strange men in a house he thought was still his, he attacked them with a sharpened screwdriver he has been carrying around since his days running drug rackets for the mafia.

Maybe he had offered two homeless men the chance for a bed and shower in a cruel attempt to keep them as slaves - forcing them to paint and repaint his walls increasingly stupid colours.

We just don't know. What we need is an official institution with the powers and resources to find out. Oh yes, we already have that. Brilliant.