78 pensioner arrested for fatally stabbing burglar in his own home

[SShaming]

2 burglars break into a 78 year old man’s home armed with screwdriver.

Forces owner into the kitchen whilst one of them goes upstairs.

A fight ensues, leaving pensioner with injuries to his arm and burglary is fatally stabbed. Perhaps with his own screwdriver although this is TBC.

Police arrest pensioner.

On what planet is this right?

This was down the road from me. Everywhere is sealed off.

you wave goodbye to your human rights as you enter

They are not human rights if you can lose them. That's how they protect us.

Your right to liberty is taken from you as soon a court, with proper process, decides you should be imprisoned.

"Human rights" are just words to most people aren't they?

Nope, my belongings are just that...things. not the same as a life. Take them, I'll survive. Hurt my family, then the gloves are off. But things are just things.

And equating burglars to rapists? Boggling.

Obviously if someone has been killed the police have to investigate. Even if it is someone who’s been deemed a ‘scumbag cunt’
So sad for everyone involved.

ikeep Thats an outrageous comparison and not in the slightest bit similar.

This is nothing like the Tony Martin case - the guy was running away and Tony Martin shot him in the back, so not in self defence.

How do you know that? How do you know the intruder wasn't leaving the premises?

If he was leaving he surely can’t have been shot in self defence.

Although nowhere near same. It is akin to rape though, as burglary is like the rape of someone's home.

ikeep although your point is correct, a rape victim would also be arrested to aid investigations but it’s a terrible comparison.

Sod off with the "life trumps property" nonsense. People invade homes and hurt and kill occupants all the time. If you find someone in your home you have to assume the absolute worst intentions.

there is a happy medium between starting an investigation and arresting someone!

What do you think arresting someone entails?

burglary is like the rape of someone's home

Fucking hell.

there is a happy medium between starting an investigation and arresting someone! Of course it's a stupid rule. Replace burglar by rapist, would they need to arrest the rape victim who successfully defended themselves?

Yes if the rapist had been killed! You cannot just assume a quick verbal account! How could you? It needs proper investigation.

A lot of people said Tony Martin was a hero, deserved a medal etc before the full facts came out.

Of course the Police have to investigate in a civilised society - and yes I do think our Police are much more civilised than in the USA.

I've been raped and if an armed burglar broke into my home whilst my kids and I were asleep in our beds I would feel every bit as terrified. It isn't just 'property' when someone breaks into your home.

In my experience as a criminal defence solicitor for over 20 years I can say that Custody Sergeants can be trusted to be kind and compassionate to those who find themselves in custody in this sort of situation. The necessary procedures have to be gone through, and in some respects these offer protection to the detainee as they will ensure his explanation is fully considered and any forensic evidence supporting it is kept safe.

It's the law. Killing someone is illegal whatever the circumstances. I'm sure you would feel the same if your poor parents were being attacked in their own home and they used self defence to protect themselves from said attackers.

Exactly stealing a car from outside will provoke a completely different emotional response to a burglary.

A burglary where they know you are at home is tantamount to a death threat.

If I remember rightly from studying A Level law eons ago, self-defence and weapons all has to do with reasonableness.

So if the burglar was carrying a screwdriver and threatened the home owner with it in a way that made him fear for his own life (not just his property), and this led to a scuffle/fight where the homeowner stabbed the burglar after the burglar had tried to stab him, that would be self-defence.

If the burglar was using the screwdriver to break into the house and didn't actually threaten the homeowner with it but the homeowner still grabbed the screwdriver and deliberately stabbed the burglar somewhere in his neck or torso (for example) that might not be considered self-defence.

I think it's all to do with whether the homeowner's action could reasonably be seen to have been done under the belief that it was a me-or-them situation and they felt the only way they could save their own life was by committing such a violent act in return.

The example above of someone having a blade under their pillow - if they stabbed a burglar I don't believe the law considers that reasonable, as you have "armed" yourself. But if you were chopping vegetables in the kitchen and someone burst in and you defended yourself with the blade that might be reasonable, as you had a reason to be holding that weapon at the time.

Tony Martin’s house was booby trapped. He used unreasonable force rather than reasonable self defence.

Clearly the Police need to check out the facts in this case. If the man has responded proportionately he likely won’t be prosecuted. Police would be remiss not to investigate the circumstances of the death here.

It is an outrage. The poor man was probably terrified out of his wits when confronted with two burglars. He might have been the one who ended up dead. Hopefully, there will be an investigation but he won't be charged.

Why on earth would you say 'hope the police treat him kindly'? What do you think they are going to do?!

Surely following the law of the land and investigating the whole circumstance in a proper and above-board way is better than any police officer being judge and jury according to how they personally see the situation on any given day?

As pp say, someone died. The police have to investigate and it is by no means for sure that any charge will be brought against the person involved, so calm down and let the proper authorities ascertain all the facts as they should do.

vivienne One one hand you say it’s an outrage but then follow up to say you hope there will be an investigation (which clearly there is) so how do you expect the police to do the investigation if they don’t follow the correct process?

He's been arrested, which is only normal when someone has killed someone else. Doesn't mean he'll be convicted.

Replace burglar by rapist, would they need to arrest the rape victim who successfully defended themselves?

err yes!! Because they can’t just take someone’s word for it that they were raped and defending themselves. If someone was having an argument with their boyfriend in the street, lost their temper and stabbed him with whatever they had to hand they could easily claim he tried to rape them as their defence. You can’t just take people’s word. Otherwise everyone would be getting away with all sorts of crimes.