How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

Sheesh how much do you spend at Christmas/birthdays etc
£350 a month is a good amount (although tbh I think you’d have loads more left over if you actually budgeted) kids are as expensive as you make them.

London is not the only place people get jobs, that's ridiculous! There are many other UK cities and areas that have jobs available.

There are loads of specific fields where the vast, vast majority of jobs are in London. In my industry, the pool of opportunities outside of London is tiny.

I am with you OP we have a similar monthly income and I also didn't want to compromise the standard of living for existing DS before having another. I think you are talking of going from 2 to 3 children though and that is much more of a lifestyle choice than 2 to 3 and one I wouldn't have done. Our childcare 4 days per week for DS2 4 days and DS1 afterschool 3 days is more than out mortgage and we have another 20 months before government funding kicks in. I have to look long term though.

Look at tax free childcare as an alternative to vouchers we are definitely better off even with DS1 costs being minimal.

Thanks tinygigolo

I’d completely forgotten about the other childcare payment option so I’ll have to look into that and consider the difference.

£350 disposable income initially sounds quite a lot but when we were living on this it means if there's a month when all the kids clubs come out - eg for my kids in jan it's £50 guides and brownie subs for the term, £100 swimming lessons for the term, £100 dance club for the term then you're left with £100- that would pay for maybe 1 family pub lunch and an evening out as a couple . It's not being on the poverty line but it does mean watching every penny - eg a school trip or new school shoes or a haircut are unaffordable .
It also means that saving for a holiday , diy, any treats are unaffordable ...not great when you're both working

A nanny would be cheaper than 3 in nursery. Although i assume soon your eldest will start school by the time your maternity leave finishes?

It's definitely do able on your income.

greenyoga is be interested to hear how much more you could squeeze out of my budget of childcare, travel, mortgage and bills? Maybe I should negotiate with TFL to pay less for my Oyster card?

No it’s 2 kids, we only have 1 who is in reception at present. I’m basing the budget on what it costs us to live now plus paying the extra childcare.

We were in negative figures when we had it second. It's only temporary but it is a hit of a bigger when you both work full time in fairly well paid jobs. Perfect storm of mortgage and childcare x 2 I'm afraid.

I think £350 left at the end of the month is good, more so if you live in an expensive part of the country. Yes it is relative but that amount is not skint, pp have indicated what truly skint is. All your wanting to do is squeeze more out of what you have which is fine, it is always good to try and get as much out of your income as possible, finances are tighter than you want them to be thats all and that doesnt make you skint it just means you have to be a bit more thoughtful on hoe you do spend what you have now. People manage on a lot less, count your blessings it could be a lot worse.

Sorry if I was a bit abrupt, it’s just you have a massive income and it’s bizarre how even budgeting the majority of it is outgoing

DH earns a six figure salary, yet we are permanently skint! Most of it goes on school fees however, a choice we had to make for various reasons which I won't elaborate here. The downside is living in a small house which we can't afford to renovate or improve. We rarely go out, rarely buy new clothes, and I'm frugal with the grocery shop. We have friends & relatives who earn much less than we do, but have much nicer homes & lifestyles.
I know similar threads have come up before, but while many would think that kind of income automatically makes you rich, the reality is often not the case. When we were both earning good salaries and had no kids...then yes, we were flippant with money and thought nothing of expensive meals out and foreign holidays galore...but that's all a distant memory now! It's all relative at the end of the day....

As someone who is pretty skint, I can tell you £350 a month on extras actually isn't very much when you have children.

It works out at just under £90 a week. How much does a pair of decent quality kids shoes cost? Or a winter coat? A trip to the cinema for a family of four costs about £40-50. A trip to a cafe for tea and cake will cost about £20-25 for a family of four.

It's an amount you can live on but certainly not comfortably.

Before you say it, no I'm not at all well off, that's how I know it's actually not a lot to live on.

Thirtyrock39
If you have that amount of money and all those clubs, your right it wouldnt be enough, but would you really keep them up? I have in the past cut my cloth etc and some things have had to stop for a while, its called living with in your means, you cant live of that kind of disposable income and expect to maintain that may clubs, it would be rather foolish. At the moment we are on something similar, less than we have been and we have cut back on those things and keep them relative to our disposable income, if i'd kept them thing up the way they were we would probably be in debt now. £350 can be enough if you adapt accordingly, you just have to sometimes.

interested to hear how much more you could squeeze out of my budget of childcare, travel, mortgage and bills?

MN loves a challenge, feel free to post details.

We worked out we couldn't afford two in childcare at the same time so started ttc when first ds was 3.5. However this only worked as we didn't need to spend more than £15 a week on after school childcare. Oh and it wasn't a multiple birth!

formerbabe I can honestly say I do not spend £90 a week on the kids! ive a 2 year old and a 13 year old!

@formerbabe cinema and cafe are luxuries and you can buy decent coat and shoes if you shop around or buy secondhand etc
Obviously everyone makes choices and if you want to go cinema every week and spend loads on a coat that’s your prerogative but having £350 at the end of the month doesn’t mean you are skint

greenyoga exactly - that was the point of my original post! Just the non-avoidable things stack up to 85% of our income, after food and allowing for petrol we would have less than 8% of our monthly income to spend on birthdays, Xmas, clothes and leisure. It just seems so mad.

Not sure what the point of this thread is. You've done the calculations, you know exactly where your money is going and what will be left. I don't like this faux-bewildered 'I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child'.

If you had posted asking for tips to save money, there would have been a point to the thread.

£80 a week is a good amount to have spare though and you can save for big things.

I don't get why there's always this race to the bottom and people clamouring to say that others have it good because it's better than them. £350 a month disposable income sounds like not very much for a household to me, presumably you are used to living with a good deal more than that and so I can understand why you would be feeling the pinch. Equally it's terrible and unacceptable that people are struggling to subsist on much, much less and frankly shouldn't be allowed, I'd happily pay more tax to support a better standard of living for everyone. But doesn't mean we have to tear the OP down or imply that they don't have the right to feel under pressure financially.

OP, are the bills actually negotiable though? how much are you spending on things like mobile phone and broadband and is there scope to switch to a cheaper option? how much is the car payment?

formerbabe tbph I think it's unlikely you've ever been that poorly off if your examples of treats are £50 for a cinema trip or £25 at a cafe for 'tea and cake'.

We've been on a severe budget as dh was made redundant during maternity leave. It sucks. But £25 for tea and cake would never have been on the cards! You can go to a Toby Carvery for a meal for 4 for £18 for instance...one of many cheapy discounts you find when you have to.

We manage with far far less. Cut your cloth and all that!

Choose similarly poor friends, that makes me feel much better! Since I distanced the friend who, when I visited didn't ask if I wanted a cup of tea, asked 'come and see what we've done to the house' every single time. Or 'we've booked this holiday etc, you need to get a move on' when she knew we struggled I feel light a weight has been lifted.

Harsh, but true.