How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

We earn more than you and can only afford two children (obviously we pay for everything ourselves, medical insurance, school fees etc.). But even so. Even if we took stiff ftpn the tax payer when you take into account the need for a bigger house etc. We would still struggle with three. Kids are just expensive.

Sometimes a post is not about other people, it's just about the OP.

Imagine I am posting about my sprained ankle, ranting how furious (and in pain) I am, and annoyed to be stuck and miss out on planned things. It wouldn't be a dig at people in wheelchair, or people with terminal disease. People are entitled to ask for help about their life, even if it appears much better than other situations.

Calling the OP pathetic and offensive is not acceptable.

Yes, mumsnet is a site for support, it’s fine to point out that you view this as a nice problem to have, in a kind way but the anger is misplaced, op isn’t responsible for anyone else’s circumstances.

The good thing is that you’re figuring this out before you’re pregnant again, so you can make some savings now hopefully - build up some emergency savings or really pay down the loan and that will make life a bit easier.

We are saving furiously now squirrels, haven’t decided on the baby bit yet, we need to figure out some stuff first, such as whether we would do so on these figures.

There are ways to word things.

It's the mock-baffled, throw your hands up comically 'OMG how is this possible' tone of the post that got my back up...not the figures involved.

It's fucking obvious why the op only has £350 a month left as it's basic maths...and if she 'genuinely' can't understand why she has £x left then I'm baffled as to how she has the brainpower to pull in such figures in the first place.

The disingenuous tone of a post which describes an amount of disposable income as being 'skint' when we all know that a lower amount feeds many families for longer is distasteful IMO.

OP how much is your weekly food shop?

Agreed secret. "How can we not have any money left when we have spent it all on all of these named expenses". Very odd post.

Because childcare.

Simple.

I think it's impressive that you have ANY disposable income after childcare costs, personally.

I'll take that little £350 off your hands if you like OP

Seriously though, seems perfectly manageable to me. Do you have long to wait before free hours kick in for your first child? When do you ideally want to start trying for another baby? I'd get rid of the expenses you don't need (so Amazon etc) before then and build up some small savings if possible. Even just enough to buy the bulk of whatever you may need for a new baby if you haven't got hand me downs from your first. Put £50 aside each month specifically for birthdays/xmas so you're not paying a huge chunk in one go. If age is on your side then there's no rush for another baby until it feels more manageable for you. Having said that, even when you do feel like you have little to live on, if you budget properly you'll find that you adapt to it in no time.

Calling the OP pathetic and offensive is not acceptable

Agreed, insults are not acceptable, especially when the OP has been at pains to say they realise their problem is relative. Sometimes threads about money can hit a raw nerve.

Skint is not being able to afford essentials such as; roof over head, food on plate and clothes. If you have money left over after spending on non-essentials such as amazon prime and apple music then you are not skint.

The £350 would be left over after everything we HAVE to pay but would have to cover clothes and birthdays etc

Surely you don't need birthday and clothes every month? £350 disposable income over the year (obviously not spending a penny) would be £4200! I think you need to reassess your lifestyle honestly. Do you need all the new clothes you buy? Can you buy from cheaper places? New DC won't care about presents / birthdays for the first few years so do them minimal. If you're going on holiday look for cheaper options / camping? What do you currently spend your disposable income on?

It’s so weird how other people live. When I start my new job next Monday I’ll be earning 759£ a month and my partner on NLW working full time earns between 1000£-1200£. We will have the same amount left over each month after everything that has to be paid for is paid for, including food/nappies/fuel etc.

We do feel skint but I guess in retrospect that much disposable income is a lot. Not sure where it goes though.

So people who have money aren’t allowed to post? That’s ridiculous

Not about how poor they are, no

OP is not posting about how poor she is though, she is posting about the difference between the household income vs what is left to spend at the end of the month.

FWIW I understand that it seems very little. I am guessing OP doesn't get any benefit, no tax credit, no 30h childcare but 15h only, reduced personal allowance etc. Take that into account when you compare your income with hers.

We have about 500 quid a month to live on, altogether. We do own our home, but it's literally falling down around our ears, slowly but surely. We are currently watching the kitchen ceiling, waiting for it to collapse - it has developed a massive dip, the gap between the boards is about 1/2" now.

We can't get it fixed, it'll cost thousands. We also have a new leak which we cannot find the source of and the plaster on the sitting room wall is falling off as a result.

The cornice in the kitchen is missing a massive piece, that fell down last year.

If we sell it like this, we'll be unable to buy anywhere else, so will have to find rent instead, but as our income is so low (we are both 60+ now, with one child in ft education) we would need HB, and no LLs here will take us, except the really shit LL with properties almost as damp and miserable as ours.

Stick with one child.

OP is not posting about how poor she is though

She described herself as 'skint'

Sorry not RTFT but have you looked at whether you'd be better off on tax free childcare than childcare vouchers? With 2 kids in nursery, one of you a HRT payer I'd have thought you would be substantially better off

Op

It will be hard. £350 - you would need to save for Xmas, birthdays and you can forget holidays. Then you have the car service/MOT type of things. Nights out, clothes, takeaways will be limited.

Can you not access 30hrs free childcare or wait until one child is in school?

Jux can you not remortgage to get your repairs done?

Are you not insured for your leak? Ceiling?

If you have disposable income, you’re not skint!

Absolutely @ikeepaforkinmypurse - I've had bitter MNers chew my head off before when I said I felt guilty about wanting nice things but I've since come to learn eff them! I work bloody hard for my money and if I want to spend £700 on a bag I bloody well will once the opportunity for me doing so is still there as I'm sure it may not always be. I don't work to survive either - we all deserve nice things and if that is an expensive bag for me or just a meal out once a month for someone else, so be it. Nobody should feel like the sole purpose of their life is to merely survive - life is too short! Someone is always going to have it better than any one of us but likewise, each of us will have it better than someone else - we shouldn't be spiteful and bitter at what other people have - we should be thankful for what we have. At the end of the day, what does a bi-monthly holiday to the Maldives or a fabulous wardrobe count for if we don't have our health? Bugger all!

I suppose the trouble is that you have no savings, a car loan and (presumably) a very large mortgage. When your car loan is paid off then start saving that money for future large expenses. Can you
get a better deal for your mortgage (or overpay when car loan paid off)? Do you have room for a lodger? I wouldn't have an au pair for a baby and doubt it would save you much vs wrap around care for a single child but it might be worth looking at a childminder vs your nursery fees to see if that saves you money, depends if the greater unreliability of a childminder (will take holidays or could get ill) is a major factor for you or not.

When you try to find a job and the only ones you get offered are in London, you have no real choice. I have friends who did relocate, but ended up redundant and after months of trying, had to come back around London.

London is not the only place people get jobs, that's ridiculous! There are many other UK cities and areas that have jobs available. I relocated from the Home Counties several years ago and the job vacancy feeds in my new area some 100 miles from London, incl a 30-40 mile circumference - for a multitude of roles and industries - is very active (agencies and direct recruitment). Heaven only knows whether Brexit will make it all go pearshaped, but that's a whole other thread.

The Op is fortunate enough to have mobility and choice unlike many people who don't have financial resource and security on their side. Not a dig at the OP at all, but it's a perspective they would do well to consider. Having choice is everything in life