How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

OP - how much is going on your mortgage if you don't mind revealing? And what's the term?

We have deliberately chosen the maximum term with the idea that we can pay up to 10% of the capital off per year on overpayments if we have money left over. This gives us a lot of flexibility if we face unexpected expenses.

My DP and I bring in about £4200 a month and our living costs including childcare (at the moment - there's another baby on the way) are about £1300. I count myself beyond lucky

@formerbabe cinema and cafe are luxuries and you can buy decent coat and shoes if you shop around or buy secondhand etc
Obviously everyone makes choices and if you want to go cinema every week and spend loads on a coat that’s your prerogative but having £350 at the end of the month doesn’t mean you are skint

I don't see a trip to a cinema and a cafe a luxury, especially when you have DC. Of course it's a choice, I'm just making the point that £90 cant go particularly far.

For example, my foundation ran out this week. I need a new one. It's £12 for a new one...that's not especially expensive but would be a lot out of a £90 a week budget. A child's hair cut is £8. Even a trip to soft play comes in at £25 for me and 2 DC. It's very difficult to say no to things like that...they are normal activities, not trips to Barbados. Children get bored and the weather is crappy in this country so a day out is expensive.

As for clothes, I got my ds a great winter coat for £18...not particularly expensive but still a lot of you are on a budget of £90.

It's all the little random expenses which add up imo. Dc1 had a homework project, I had to spend £10 on craft supplies for it. These things add up very quickly.

@ferretface I don’t think it’s a race to the bottom at all.
Before my son I had about a thousand a week spare depending on work.
After my son I had to go hungry as I couldn’t afford food.
Now I’m somewhere in the middle.
You just deal with what you have and accept that having spare cash doesn’t make you skint

Umm... I have just split from a partner because of a case of DV whilst holding our son in my arms. I am now left with £170 a month to feed/clothe us both/petrol and any activites...so excuse me for sneering at your post!

formerbabe do you live somewhere expensive? a trip to soft play for me and 2 dc would be about a 10er tops

formerbabe tbph I think it's unlikely you've ever been that poorly off if your examples of treats are £50 for a cinema trip or £25 at a cafe for 'tea and cake

I actually have less than 350 a month once I've paid for food. My point was that even rather insignificant treats and trips out are extremely expensive. It is terrible imo that people in this country with decent jobs and wages cannot afford little extras like this.

formerbabe do you live somewhere expensive? a trip to soft play for me and 2 dc would be about a 10er tops

I live in London. Yep it's about £25 then by the time kids have pestered me for a drink and snack in the café, it's cost me £30-35.

@formerbabe even so you could go softplay every week, get takeaway every week, go cinema every week on that budget and have enough left over for haircut/foundation/savings towards Birthday/Christmas etc

It is beyond ridiculous that on their income they don’t have more at the end of the month I agree.
It doesn’t make them skint though

Cinema trips and £25 on tea and cake in a cafe is a ridiculous extravagence and definitely a luxury unless you have plenty of disposable income.

If you in any way have to watch what you spend, it's a very poor use of limited funds really.

We had twins so had all of the childcare costs together and nothing could be passed on. We never had less disposable income even though we were both working and had a decent income on paper. Once the 'free' hours kick in it gets better and when school starts that helps also. It is a financially stretching time but it does pass.

Christ. We have less than £50 after bills are paid. Luckily we have savings from before getting a bigger mortgage so holidays, broken washing machines etc come out of that.
But we have no 'fun money' left. I'd be delighted to have £350 of spare cash!

barbara so do you not think it’s crazy that a household with an income of £80k+ cannot afford to go to the cinema?

You can afford to go to the cinema though

It sounds like you have a fairly hefty mortgage, although you've declined to say what it is. That'll be where your money is going; what's surprising everyone on the thread is why this appears to be a surprise to you?
What exactly are you unable to work out?

Yeah that's a pretty stupid comment about the cinema...

Yep it's about £25 then by the time kids have pestered me for a drink and snack in the café, it's cost me £30-35.

But that's still a choice - you can massively cut that cost by bringing drinks and snacks from home. For a lot of families, £35 a week on soft play just isn't feasible, neither are regular cinema trips or visits to cafes.

If I only had £350 a month fun-money, movies would be at home on a cheap Netflix subscription with homemade snacks or cheap ones from the pound store, or playing in the garden/at the park!

"Spends"

How much disposable income do you have now?

barbara so do you not think it’s crazy that a household with an income of £80k+ cannot afford to go to the cinema?

Of course you can afford to go to the cinema! But again, that's a CHOICE. You can choose to spend less by getting a subscription to Netflix and having movie nights at home. Our nearest cinema is a 40 minute drive and would cost us £20 for two of us - so we stay home and spend £8 on Netflix and we can watch as many films as we want!

or playing in the garden/at the park

Weather is seriously crappy in this country. That's fine in summer but in winter, you can't do that all the time. It's also much harder as children get older. My eldest is ten now and a trip to the local playground just doesn't have the same appeal as it did a few years ago.

Depends on the cinema of course. It costs us over £60 for a family of 4 to see a film at our local cinema. And that's just the tickets!

The circus is in town here...I've looked and tickets for a family of four will come to about £80

Yes some may say that's a choice and a luxury but fgs, it's a fairly normal activity for children to go to a circus. It shouldn't be seen as an unaffordable luxury for a family with two decent wages coming in.

I was responding to a particular comment on a trip to the cinema being a ridiculous extravagance with a low disposable income and being a poor use of funds. I don’t actually like the cinema and think it’s a rip off anyway.

At no point have I said we wouldn’t manage in £350 disposable income, I’d just never thought fully about the reduction until we started discussing a second child. Something we hadn’t previously been considering.