How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

glitter not that I don’t believe you (sounds like you are super savvy with money in all areas) but I would be interested in your week’s grocery bill just through curiosity.

I think I’m pretty good with money but not committed enough to go somewhere else just to buy washing powder I’ll admit. I do buy own brand and use fairly sparingly though. And I told my DH off for going through toilet roll too quickly this morning too

Where EXACTLY have I called you a liar?

I asked questions, and much of what I said - and I did some research too, WAS intended to be helpful even though as you know I think you don't appreciate/comprehend just how LUCKY you are to be able to make the choices you do and have the lifestyle you have. But hey no good deed goes unpunished

I don’t think you were trying to be helpful, I think you were and are continuing to be sanctimonious about having to live on less money.

But there is no point in me typing this really, because I imagine your response will be fairly predictable

I genuinely was, I've offered a lot of budgeting advice/tips on mn and I hope they've helped.

But your choice to believe that or not.

It's easier to count your blessings than your woes.

I'm out.

You accused me of living in an ivory tower (your words) and not appreciating my privilege (which I said right upfront I did) and of being offensive. NOT helpful at all. You didn’t need to say any of that if you wanted to be helpful.

I think @graphista has been really helpful and it seems as though you don’t even want to listen. It’s like ‘poor me I only have £350 spare’ and it doesn’t matter what anyone says you’re determined to have that ‘poor me’ attitude.
At the end of the day you’re choosing your priorities but a lot of other people live very happily in the same situation so this entire post is a pointless bragging exercise.

OP, I think a lot of people will have understood everything you've said.

Well done for handling a very difficult thread the way you have.

Haven’t been ‘poor me’ at all TBH.

Thanks Teisan. There have been some really useful things to come out of it.

I actually think it’s been quite tame, I’ve only been called names about 3 times in 21 pages, but I can take it.

Some of graphista's posts have been helpful, I dont know that everything she's had to say about the car qualifies.

Also OP hasn't been poor me. I do see that some people reasonably wouldn't like the colloquial use of the word skint in the way it was utilised, but she's not poor me-ing.

Haha yes my 80k was per year - typo! I was initially calculating the net per month but couldn't be bothered.

glad to see OP has found some comments helpful.
having seen the breakdown of cost its not very surprising to be disappointed with leftover cash if there is a relatively big loan in the background. That, like childcare cost, is temporary.

anyway a pp nailed it i think: its not mandatory to have or want to have a second child, no justification needed. to me the way you approach it op would suggest that you dont really want a second child. But of course only you know the answer to that.

oblada I go back and forth a lot on the second child thing a lot. I have a very practical head and wouldn’t have one just because of an urge to have another baby and to hell with the consequences. Nothing wrong with the deciding factor being you just want one, but that’s not me and never will be.

I’ve tried to tell myself it’s a solid no because I know it will make life much harder, and I’m not talking about financially. But I can’t help but keep coming back to it and wondering what life would be like with another one.

I don’t feel like I should have another child because DS deserves a sibling, or ‘that’s just what you do’ or anything like that.

Oh I don’t know!

I suppose it depends how temporary some of those expenditures are. I've gone through our equivalent expenditures and it's the loan and childcare that stands out both of which are only a few years. Since your DS is at school could you increase to 4.5 days and WFH one day a week until you get pregnant? Could your DH WFH to reduce travel expences or would it make no difference?

We did have a few tight years when the kids were small and the things that made the biggest difference were
A) DH finding a local job which saved us £6000pa. Not easy though, he spent years looking while we threw money at season tickets and additional childcare. He increased his hours (yet more money, woo hoo!) when he started the new job but was actually at home more because he saved 10h a week travelling time.
B) The youngest starting school. DH and I rejigged our hours at this point so we now only have to pay for one afternoon childcare a week. Saving £15000pa weeps

We are throwing money at the mortgage and savings now to make up for the lean years (actually we extended the term of our mortgage when we had our second so our mortgage repayments went down, could you do that?).

We did have savings to cover loss of earnings while on maternity and you really need to start increase your savings now that while you consider having a second.

FWIW I reckon we spend about £500 pcm on supermarket shopping for 5 people so I'm well impressed with your figure. And no ready meals here thankyou very much. And with 3 older children we spend a lot more on swimming/sports clubs (although nowhere near what childcare use to cost).

It does sound a bit mad when we have an income of 27k, 2 kids, and can afford a few luxuries. The price difference around the country is mind boggling.

Sorry to digress but....

@CookPassBabtridge - if your username was currency, it would be gold. Love it!

@Middleoftheroad

Haha thankyou! I was really surprised it hadn't been taken, but really chuffed.

I did a bit of maths and figured out if the OP and her husband has 350 left over once all bills and food has been paid for out of 4500 a month (after tax) that is 8% of their income. As a comparison and I do not wish to gloat or be goady, we live in Sydney have jobs that traditionally are on the low paid side (we would seriously struggle in the uk) and we have a disposable income of 55% compared to our salary (one child as well).

Also our family income is low in comparison to my friends and family. The uk government has screwed over nearly everyone. My mum asks if we would move back to the UK. Hell no! Shittier working conditions for far less pay. It is madness that a family with a joint income of nearly 5000 a month has to question if they can afford it.

It is. That shows something has gone very wrong somewhere with our society, and I personally think that's a more important take from this thread than whether anyone feels sorry for OP or not.

Rosie/Paul and that was exactly the point of my OP. That’s it’s madness that we can bring in so much but have so relatively little left after paying the bills.

I never wanted anyone to feel sorry for me!

£350 does sound loads until you consider its got to cover clothes eg new winter shoes, coats, next size up clothes; family birthdays; days out; any holidays(I know they’re not a necessity); unexpected expenses such as car, broken washing machine, etc.
We have a similar household income to you and I’m usually skint by pay day.

Having said that - if you’re prepared for things to be a bit tight, and it sounds like you are, then I’d go for it.

Absolutely, it’s the fact that on ‘good’ salaries things are still so tight, every month once you have kids. It’s rubbish .

Oh I know you didn't OP. That was obvious.

@BasinHaircut I said I would post a shopping receipt just for interest, so here it is. Although we did spend another £10 over the weekend, but these are all our weekly necessities x

Op lots of us on good salaries are in exactly the same boat as you. Yes on the one hand we are fortunate that we don't have to visit the food bank and our kids don't have holes in their shoes but on the other hand something is massively wrong with our society when the working are questioning whether they can afford another child. For what it is worth in my opinion you can afford another child. But prob don't listen to me - we have a six figure joint income and debt excluding mortgage of one of our annual salaries. That's how we (didn't) afford it.

@Glitter That’s interesting but what are you cooking for meals fur a week? I can see plenty of breakfast options, lunch I see too, but for dinners just meatballs and possibly a stir fry?

I know you said your child eats at nursery half the week, and you also eat out/have people over if a weekend on a separate budget but still I’d struggle to feed us on that list. We’re 2 adults 2 primary DC and a Lidl bill is at least twice that for a week’s worth of not extravagant meals!