How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

The only thing I can suggest is spreadsheet it all out and include everything. London travel, mortgage and council tax I suspect is the bulk of the expense. I got rid of my car when we made cuts and so we only have one car but we live in a place where I don't really need one, keeping it would have been a luxury, but obviously it depends on what your needs are and if you have more than one car. Do you have any savings? Could you look at whether you can make your money work for you better elsewhere I.e. Isa for this tax year? The suggestion from another poster re non branded products is a good one and can be made easily. The Money saving expert website is a good one to have a browse as has loads of ideas.

daisychain01
I am just bored of posters on this forum who are so narrow-minded and try to shut up anyone who has slightly more than they have. There's no reason to be so nasty when someone is worrying about the financial cost of having another baby.

If you agree that you are not allowed to complain if you have more than someone else, then NO ONE is allowed to moan here: we have free NHS, free school, free rent even, free food if you are desperate , no one is poor in this country if you go that way.

Some people have NO HELP: no free babysitting, no free lift, no family, so they do need more money than others!

To reply to another poster, why would you need £350 a month? Well, I need a lot more than that sorry, if I want to: go on holiday, pay for my kids hobbies, pay for their birthday parties, pay for Christmas, and luxuries like cleaner, hairdresser and so on, save for us and for the kids. I don't work to survive, I work to give a nice life to my kids. If I wanted the bare minimum, I wouldn't bother going to work frankly.

Yes but once kids are in school, you'd have nearly three grand a month to spend on food etc.

Sounds like loads left over to me and it's not like it's longterm. Things are supposed to be tight will kids are little and you'll probably want to live more simply anyway. Enjoy the simple things for a while.

but as an idea - also London - we are now spending £1500 a month on the youngest's nursery fees but by paying annually (raiding savings for that) we save about £700 a year

And when she goes to primary school we will then just be paying £1500 a term for breakfast and after school clubs so £3000 a term for two children...

Much more sensible...

You don't say how old your child is, so if the age gap is good, you might only pay full nursery for a couple of years overlap

So people who have money aren’t allowed to post? That’s ridiculous.

Who said that? People are saying that £350 a month left over is PLENTY and not a reason to feel skint!

We very recently had to have this discussion as I found myself unexpectedly pregnant (it wasn't too be, but that's not the point).

We have 3750 after taxes, student loan, pensions and childcare vouchers taken out.

Our mortgage, essential bills, food and car/ travel expenses are £2400 then we have an additional £486 in childcare costs. leaving us with £864. So technically we can't afford another child! Not with the extra childcare fees (£870) even when DS gets his free hours.

This seems ludicrous on our income, but our mortgage is extortionate - we bought the house not planning a second. So I guess that's a choice we'll have to stick with. We both agreed we'd make it work (sell one of the cars, vastly reduce the food spend and stop going out completely!

Sounds like you'd struggle to afford one - what's more important, another child or a comfortable life?

OP if this thread is just to scratch your head at how expensive it is to live in UK, then from that perspective, you're right but if you've made the choice to live in an expensive part of the country then that's unfortunately the price you pay. There are more affordable areas outside Greater London where you get significantly more bang for your buck house price wise (and hence a lower mortgage), but if you've already invested in renovations you probably won't want to do that. Plus moving house drains your capital (removal costs, stamp duty etc).

Doesn't go far because you live in London.

£350/month for clothes, holidays, pressies. £4200/yr.

Keep to £80 per person for Xmas or birthdays.
That's £640/yr.
Leaves £900 per person/yr for clothes, or £450 yr per person for clothes & £450 each for hols. It's not nothing, is it? Especially as I gather Person4 would be a baby, and they can be very cheap.

You need to look long term. If you can stay in your job and absorb the childcare costs for now, your longer-term finances and pension won't be hit so hard. I gave up work when I had 2 in childcare because I was breaking even for a 70 hour week and part-time wasn't an option, but was lucky to eventually get back into a similar job , though current pay rate is lower and my pension has taken a blow.

A few other things to think about...

Can you get any kind of sibling discount on the childcare?

Have you still got all the baby equipment, so that you don't have to buy again?

Can you step up the loan payments while ttc/pregnant, so that that expense is gone by the time a second baby is born?

Can you put aside say £50 per month into a savings account o cover things like Christmas/ birthdays?

Will you be entitled to child benefit when on maternity leave?

orange that was aimed a few PP who have said “you shouldn’t have posted here”

To whoever it was who asked what on earth we spent all that money on, the big ones are childcare (cost of 1 all day and 1 wrap around school 4 days per week), mortgage, work travel, loan repayment (car), council tax, utilities, Insurance. Few other bits such as DS swimming lessons (£20 and non-negotiable) and amazon prime (lifesaving) that could arguably be cut back but seriously, this is what we have to be paying out to just exist here.

Re the cc vouchers, I get £248 and DH £135, which is the max we can have for our respective salaries.

if we had another and had two in childcare we'd have about 50 quid left over I think! our childcare bill would be around £1800 per month. it wouldn't even be worth me working!

£350 after bills isn't bad I don't think. it's a lot more than some people have without paying massive childcare bills!

Presumably with 2 people working 4 days you need 3 days of childcare x 2 children, and train/commute costs x 2 as well, and a London mortgage and a loan. That’s going to eat a big chunk.

You’ll be ok, though. It is a short period when the childcare is so horrendous, then as they get bigger they cost in other ways

We survived, you will too. Key I think is to budget the £350 properly - really consider all the irregular expenses that might crop up and allocate funds to everything so you’re not struggling when it’s an expensive time of year like loads of birthdays together or car tax due etc.

You Need A Budget is good for this.

Would love to have that left at the end of the month. My partner and I have 3 jobs between us. We don't have childcare costs because we work alternating shifts (never see each other) on payday each month we pay out all the bills. Set aside 250 for a months food shopping and after that we have 40.00 left over for the rest of thd month for takeaways, clothing, treats, presents, savings for christmas etc (and im sure you can work out that 40 doesnt get us much from that list !)We don't have any luxuries and all our outgoings are essential. It would be great to have 350 a month to spend as we wished. Even 100 a month would be wonderful!

You’re not alone op, our second dc just got her free 15 hours and it was amazing - high mortgages, high childcare costs and a lot of working does tend to make you feel stretched.

It’s an investment, having a child is an investment in your family, you’ll have a few not fun years juggling the books and then it’ll get easier.

A second baby is for life.

t if you've made the choice to live in an expensive part of the country then that's unfortunately the price you pay.

I am sorry, but I hate when people say that. When you try to find a job and the only ones you get offered are in London, you have no real choice. I have friends who did relocate, but ended up redundant and after months of trying, had to come back around London.

If it was just a nice but expensive part of the country, many of us would chose somewhere else than London!

whatevszz what about breakfast club, after school club and holiday clubs? We worked out that when DS goes to school, we'll only save £200 a month of childcare - which I'm sure will go on extra curricular activities and the extra food. Childcare doesn't end when children go to school!

I live in the place I’ve always lived. Never moved to the big smoke to live the dream. I’d move in a heartbeat if we could make it work with jobs and see the benefits financially and lifestyle-wise

it’s just madness that with the amount we have coming in (the cc vouchers are ON TOP of the net salary we get them already), we would still not have much free cash or any cushion

It's not bloody 'madness' at all

Including the vouchers you're taking home £4885 net a month. You're spending £4535 a month. That leaves you with £350.

Make different choices as to what you spend over 4 and a half grand a month on. OR if you absolutely can't lower this spending, suck it up.

You're hardly on the breadline and there's no confusion as to why you 'only' have £x left

Saying you're skint is pathetic and offensive to those who genuinely are. What you mean is you would would not have tons of disposable income for a couple of years... Here's a thought, why don't you save some money before the baby arrives??

We already have one in before/after school childcare. It’s working out about £700 a month cheaper than all day care did!

Op it’s hard when your disposable income drops significantly.
It can be manageable though. Make sure you have some money set aside for emergencies, set aside money for Xmas and birthdays, cut food costs and take advantage of free places for entertainment.

I am just bored of posters on this forum who are so narrow-minded and try to shut up anyone who has slightly more than they have. There's no reason to be so nasty when someone is worrying about the financial cost of having another baby.

Grinding poverty is a reality globally, and the poverty gap is more pronounced than ever - maybe the "nasty" comments are from those who cannot see light at the end of the tunnel (the thread about childhood poverty is one such theme). We can never know everyone's individual motives for posting angry comments!

£350 surplus when all other bills have been paid isnt such a bad problem to have imo.

OP I get it. £350 disposal income a month doesn't feel much to me either. It's all to do with what you're used to, though obviously we're both in very fortunate positions and we know that.

Childcare is just fucking expensive and there's no way round this. It will get much easier when the 15 free hours kick in.

In the meantime, look at your food shop. We do everything in Lidl/Aldi now and it saves a fortune. I'm a complete convert, I'd never go back. We are in Ireland though (moved there recently from London) and I think the saving is greater.