Evil - I know I’m not BU

[AngelL7]

I don’t know if anyone remembers my post about DD’s allergy to cats? A quick recap is DD has severe asthma & allergy to cats - her father refused to accept this at it would mean putting his new partner’s cat out, this is despite Dr stressing no contact with cats.

Fast forward from then we now have had tests done proving without a doubt that DD is severely allergic to cats (we have now been advised that it is critical DD is kept away from cats)

Yesterday DD was with her father & when they arrived at his house he put the cat out. However DD has informed me that after her father left the room his partner brought the cat back in and kept it hidden. She seemingly was unaware that DD noticed. Chillingly DD also told me she felt like it was done on purpose to hurt her. (I have always had the opinion that she resented DD because of her link to me so it doesn’t surprise me & I don’t feel it’s exaggerated)

What’s my next step here? If she’s putting my DD at risk is this something that should be reported? I’m so angry & afraid for my DD to be around her again. I don’t know if talking to ex will yield any results, other than a mouthful of abuse saying I’m jealous / lying

My Dh had a cat allergy that triggers his asthma too.

He gets itchy eyes and then can have an attack if the contact is prolonged.

We got a cat as we figured out long haired cats didn't affect him but as she was going outside more and more, his asthma started getting worse. It seemed like not having close contact made the allergy worse.

Lucky for us, our cat is semi feral so actually prefers being outside. If she does come in, she usually does it when Dh is out at work. A hoover round before he gets home usually helps

Hi OP I wouldn't not allow your DD to go to the house. If your ex wants to see her then tell him to come to your house or meet up somewhere. No way would I allow my child there knowing it'll effect her health. As for his new partner letting the cat back in that's out of order, she needs to be put in her place and your ex needs to know what she did. Hope you get this sorted out.

Just wanted to add, your ex can't downplay this. It could kill your daughter

He needs to take it seriously and it will come down to does he live with his gf and get rid of the cat or will he move out and she keeps the cat

Taking the cat out actually won't make a difference with a severe allergy.

She cannot stay for any length of time with a place with a cat.

As an adult with a moderate allergy I would stay overnight at my inlaws but that's as long as I will cope with barely feeling able to breathe. A child shouldn't go through that.

toffee

Social services can do nothing to prevent contact at all with a PR holder especially one with a court order granting him contact without a court order of their own OR his consent. They have zero legal powers what so ever, they can suggest ,advise ,even tell you if you allow him to collect they will take action against you, but the bottom line is his court order trumps anything unless they have their own order.

Granted in a lot of circumstances a
Court would fully understand and support withholding where needed but until a matter is before it you don’t really know.

It’s a far less risky strategy unless something like a very serious hospital admission occurs and is dealt with straight away, timing is important

Asthma is no joke- kids die. I would stop contact and contact a solicitor.

Firstly, stop any contact at XP's house - all contact to be supervised, break the order. Fuck the order. They can't arrest you on the spot. You have enough medical evidence of how dangerous it is for your DD to spend any time at her father's house: until he has proved he can be trusted to keep her safe, the order is irrelevant.

I would be a little wary of accusing the GF of intentionally trying to harm your DD - it's a lot more likely that she's just one of these twats who think allergies are attention seeking and that if DD doesn't 'know' the cat is there, she won't come to any harm.

Is your dd old enough to take a mobile with her to her dad's and call an ambulance if she needs one and her dad doesn't think so? Or ring you with a pre arranged code word (or just to wheeze at you) so you could call an ambulance?
And can she self administer her drugs if she is having an attack?

Not wishing to be a scaremonger but think your dd needs to know what to do and how to do it if/when she has an attack at her dad's house... And to have plans for what to do if he or his partner won't help.

Obviously it is better to talk to the legal bods and try to ensure she doesn't have to go there, but in case she does the sooner she can actively help herself the better.

I would also take her to the gp and call maybe childline if you don't want to call ss to get all this documented at the time in case you need it as evidence, as well as in case they can give good advice. And maybe talk to the lical DV unit at the police on the non emergency number so they log it and can provide advice too.

NeedsAsockamnesty

The position is much more nuanced than that. As a parent with parental responsibility your first duty is to keep your child safe even if that is from another parent with responsibility. SS tend to say what suits them imhe but they most definitely will advocate the immediate cessation of contact with a parent where there is a perceived risk and were very vocal in it being my duty to my child to do so. (If you go down this route always get social services advice in writing).

Usually it's much more difficult as the question of risk relies on a child's word against an adult. But in this case there's a medical diagnosis and an ambulance trip, that's pretty conclusive.

Ime court will always want a threat to a child resolved. They're generally happy as long as the parent stopping contact seems to have no intention of doing so beyond the resolution of the danger. it's very clear the OP doesn't. She really shouldn't be afraid of this landing in court even if she did stop contact

AngelL7

If your seeing a solicitor I always found it useful to ask what is the best case scenario', what it the worse case scenario and without holding you to it what do you predict is the most likely scenario (usually somewhere in the middle of these two). I stopped letting them write letters as it carries no more legal weight than you writing or emailing the same thing and it will cost you.

Toffeelatte, you are talking nonsense.

There is only one course of action which is an immediate variation application.

Non compliance with a contact order always carries the risk of imprisonment or other punishment. That risk is mitigated if the resident parent is proactive in getting the matter back to court without delay.

Going to social services is not an alternative action. Social services didn't make the order. The Court did. Social services cannot change the order. Only the court can.

I know nothing about the technicalities of this but do the court have a number you can call/active monitored email account that you can use in cases like this for when one parent is severely worried about the safety of their child when with the other court ordered adult? You can't be the only person that has serious immediate concerns about how their child is being looked after (as opposed to differences of opinion about how best to parent the child/ren).

There are certainly plenty of posts on here from parents (usually mums) who are having to juggle impossible choices between their child's safety and repercussions of not following the court ordered contact - a lose:lose choice.

When time and money are of the essence, and when there seems to be an inbuilt assumption that the other (badly behaving/dangerous) parent is a normal sane reasonable rational adult who puts the wellbeing of the child above their own wants, is there an 'acute' option to stop the contact immediately that can be used as an interim measure while the ongoing long term 'chronic' problem is sorted out properly?

You need to stop DD going to his house until he gets rid of the cat. Appreciate it's a loved pet, but he is putting your DD's life at risk.

Let him take you to court. Judge cannot argue with medical evidence.

do the court have a number you can call/active monitored email account that you can use in cases like this for when one parent is severely worried about the safety of their child when with the other court ordered adult

Of course not! They are a court. They deal with applications.

You fill in the form. If you think it needs an urgent hearing, you tick the box and say why. If the safekeeping judge agrees, they will give an early hearing. If they don't, they will list in the usual way, usually 6-8 weeks, after safeguarding checks.

Ok so I let him know that after he left the room the cat got back in & then hid behind the chair. I didn’t mention how cat got back in.

Surprisingly He thanked me for letting him know which does make me think he is now taking it very seriously. Which relieves me so much! I actually now think he would be cross if he knew it was done on purpose.

If it was me I would be wondering how the cat knew how to hide & would question it further.

But I can’t shake the feeling there is a more sinister reason to her actions. 🙈

Thank you everyone for your help xx

MrsBertBibby

I appreciate you are talking from a legal perspective. Indeed I have heard solicitors tell me exactly same.

BUT dont assume that your way is only one way of doing things. It isn't. I speak from direct experience.

Your talking from a legal perspective, which is all fine and dandy. But having been through it (several times) there is no way I would head back to court straight off.

It's extremely presumptous and really rather rude to tell someone they are talking nonsense when you have no idea of their life experience.

Sorry, but he is still not taking it seriously. Is he stupid? Does he not realise that simply removing the cat from the room is enough to prevent it triggering her allergy?

Cat hair gets everywhere!

*not enough

Good result. It's a nonsense excuse that allows him to backtrack and save face, but I'd let him have it

toffee I’m an ex social worker who now has a specialism that means I’m in family court more than I’m out of it.

Regardless of what any social worker has told you they cannot override a court order, and there will always be a risk to the none complying parent if they breach one.

Surely it makes absolutely no odds if the cat is inside or out if her allergy is that severe as there will be cat hair / dander everywhere anyway?

It's extremely presumptous and really rather rude to tell someone they are talking nonsense when you have no idea of their life experience.

Not when they're dishing out nonsense "advice" that could put some kid's mother at risk of getting jailed for contempt it isn't. It's a public duty to call out someone spouting such ill informed dangerous shite.

The law doesn't give a shiny shit about your "life experiences".

It's a good point, toffee.

I've got some life experiences too, and have had to make difficult decisions about contact and keeping my children safe. The knowledge I've gained on the mumsnet legal board has helped me so much.

What I mean is, I'm hugely grateful to mrsbertbibby and the other legal professionals who give out free information on mumsnet.

In the op"s position, if her ex had minimised the risks, then I would have stopped contact (I have a son with life threatening allergies, and would have protected him if necessary). Without the information I got from mumsnet, I would have got into a terrible legal mess and perhaps put my son at more risk in the long term.

Because of mumsnet, I knew it was a good idea to stay out of family court when it came to contact. I offered a contact centre and, when that went wrong, i was able to stop contact without repercussions, I told exh to take me to court if he wanted to (he never has, and the kids haven't seen him in years now).

Without the free information I had, my kids would probably be much less settled and happy than they are now.