"Our customers won't do this because they aren't DECEITFUL" ??????

[SuitedandBooted]

Yes, it is in the Daily Mail, but

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5565999/Row-female-compartments-transgender-people-pits-Churchills-grandson-against-Mumsnet.html

Just how the hell can Serco vouch for everyone who uses this service?
Women will be perfectly safe sharing a sleeping carriage with ANYONE as there is a button they can press?

Hello Mr Soames, Real World calling!!

I think women are still very naive or in denial about the sheer depth and breadth of misogny in our society. Some men really, really hate us. Mostly they try and hide it from us. But sometimes, they let it slip.

Agree. Nothing has ever shown this up to me quite as much as the rush to pander to male feelings and throw women under the bus that is the transagenda.

Actually there are plenty of accounts online from women in Canada who say that things are far from okay with self ID there. It is just very difficult to get transparent reporting due to the very strict laws on 'misgendering' etc.

I've asked for proof that violent crime against women has increased in Canada since self ID laws were introduced. You've told me that there are some women on the Internet who are not happy, I accept that, but it's not proof that violent crime against women has increased.

You've claimed that it's 'difficult to get transparent reporting', I'm not looking for reporting, I'm looking for proof.

Canada accepts that trans women are women and adds the 0.05% of the population who are trans women into general 'women' statistics. Having slightly more women doesn't make collecting violence against women statistics and harder.

(By the bye, I'm not particularly pro self id, I'm mostly indifferent to it, I would just like some facts to back up the claim that it's 'dangerous').

Canada accepts that trans women are women and adds the 0.05% of the population who are trans women into general 'women' statistics.

Canada adds male crimes to female statistics. There's the start of the bloody problem.

Male on female rapes are recorded as female on female crimes, so it's impossible to get accurate records now!

Canada adds male crimes to female statistics. There's the start of the bloody problem.

I'm not looking for the gender of attackers, I'm looking for the stats for violence against women, specifically in an increase in violence against women since the self id laws were introduced.

I want proof that there is a danger to women. It doesn't have to be Canada, stats from Malta, Ireland or anywhere else with similar laws will do fine. It's being repeatedly claimed that there is a danger, I'd like to see proof of that.

I’ve posted this before, but I just want to answer those who are suggesting that men don’t dress as women to get access to female spaces and sexually assault women. My job is supervising and risk assessing sex offenders in the community. These men exist. I have met them. They actively get their kicks from dressing as women while abusing women. It’s reasonably common in the sex offender population. You are forgetting that sex offenders don’t act or think like “normal” people when it comes to sex.
Here’s the problem. Many women are all too aware that sexual predators exist, and feel it is a fundamental human right to be allowed to protect themselves from them. Self ID allows anyone, not just the genuine trans person, to access safe spaces, and many women can see the danger of the sexual predator and are very scared, and very angry that our right to be safe is seen as so disposable.

Still

There's heaps of stats all over the place about male violence towards women (and each other).
What proof do you have that declaring themsleves women suddenly makes violent men stop being violent?

StillScreaming if the violent crimes which transwomen are committing, are being recorded as crimes committed by women, how do you propose that evidence is gathered?

Also it's pretty disingenuous to say nothing's occurred in Ireland. Ireland isn't allowing rapists to id as women and then get put in women's prisons.

You want proof that when men are presented with loopholes they can use to access women's spaces in order to commit sexual crimes against women, they will use those loopholes, check out the number of crimes committed by males in women's bathrooms since Target decided men can use women's bathrooms if they id as women:

This could never have been predicted

[[https://www.facebook.com/groups/1722756661380462/

Now one of the most annoying things, is that these incidents are mostly being collected by right wing organisations and media, because the left are simply not interested.

It is disgraceful that the left has ceded women's safety to a right wing regressive, reactionary agenda instead of taking women's concerns seriously.

The other thing is that it is not just about physical safety, it's about privacy and dignity and women's boundaries and psychological comfort. Voyeurism and indecent exposure are sex crimes too, because we recognise it's not appropriate and it's a violation. Where do they come in?

Given that there is more than one reason to transition, a good number of men who identify as women are sexual fetishists, autogynephiles who fetishise everything to do with women.

Deciding to alter the protocols about sex segregation to knowingly include these men is a whopping bit of misogyny that is breathtaking in its arrogance.

Whereas NAMALTING is used as the mechanism for men to defend their sex in general, you can't possibly use it in terms of transgenderism, when Stonewall's own website includes fetishists under the definition.

"I want proof that there is a danger to women"

You want proof that men are a danger to women?

Can you fucking hear yourself?

1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted by men. 1 in 4 are beaten up by men on a chronic, ongoing basis. 2 a week are murdered in the UK by men. Men catcall, hiss under their breath at us as we walk past, push us out of their way (sometimes literally under a bus as in the Putney bridge case), "accidentally" walk into us if we don't move quickly enough and then tell us that we're imagining it all.

But you want proof that biological, socialised men are dangerous to women?

When did gaslighting become part of your feminism?

Ah, Canada. That wonderful land where the government cares so much about the safety of women.

If people could speak freely, I suspect you might get a different picture. Don't underestimate how muzzled people are out there on this issue.

Canada's lost girls

I'd happily share a carriage with a trans woman. I know many and non of them behave like 'men'.

In Canada I once saw a huge twitter fight after a group of self obsessed TRAs completely hijacked a protest about sexual assault of a woman and made threats of violence when an argument blew up about TERFs being allowed to participate.

Sorry not twitter, Facebook.

The danger for me is that women are being no platformed and silenced.
I find it dangerous that threats are made by TRA'S all under the watchful eye of the political parties and it's being allowed.

I find it dangerous that women are being blocked from twitter and removed from the Labour party because they are questioning Self i.d

I find it dangerous that women are being told to put up and shut up.

.I find it dangerous that the erasure of women is being blindly accepted (chest feeders, talking about menstruation is exclusionary)

I find it dangerous that Lesbians are being told they are transphobic for not accepting a 'lady penis'

I find it dangerous that none of this is being discussed by the major political players in a fair and reasonable manner.

Men everywhere have been reported and arrested for voyeurism, upskirting, etc, in women's toilets.

Numerous men identifying as women have committed sexually violent crimes.

Here is the gaslighting:

Somehow, those two sets of men are mutually exclusive.

Therefore we should dispense with sex segregation in women's spaces, for men identifying as women.

I'd happily share a carriage with a trans woman. I know many and non of them behave like 'men'.

Your friends are your friends. But they are actually men, and many women don't want to share intimate spaces with men. Can you not grasp that? Do you have so little regard for women's feelings?

Somehow, those two sets of men are mutually exclusive.

Yes, they never quite get round to explaining how that works.

@ Swanheart

I'm not claiming that men don't commit violent and sexual crimes against women. I am well aware that they do. I'm arguing that men don't need to dress up as women to access women only spaces to carry out those crimes. I'm also saying that I can find any evidence that men do dress up as women, in order to commit those crimes.

I'd happily share a carriage with a trans woman. I know many and non of them behave like 'men'

how about sharing a carriage with someone who is pretending?

Identifying as a woman in order to get easy access to his victims?

I'd happily share a carriage with my brothers or my son.

I wouldn't expect other women to share a carriage with them however.

I'm also saying that I can find any evidence that men do dress up as women, in order to commit those crimes.

I just posted you a whole load of links which you've ignored.

You won't be able to find any evidence that men dress up as women in order to commit sexual crimes, if you completely ignore it when it's given to you. That's the nature of evidence.

I'd happily share a carriage with a trans woman. I know many and non of them behave like 'men'.

Cool, then you can volunteer for a mixed-sex carriage and those of us who will not share with men get to keep their single-sex spaces.

Aaaaaaah Serco, the company who have so much faith in their customers they sent a letter to my six year old son threatening court against him yes I have total faith in their capabilities.

I'd happily share a carriage with a trans woman. I know many and non of them behave like 'men

One you know them so you've had chance to prejudge the threat levels and behavior prior to any journey. There are several men I'd be willing to share with for similar reasons - family members in my case though not all blood relatives.

Two - Trans people likely aren't the problem – opportunist sexual predators willing to lie are.