In thinking DH's attitude is absolutely ridiculous? I'm seething!

[justkeeponsmiling]

For reference, we have 3 DC: DD (17), DD (12) ), DS (8). DH and I got together when eldest DD was 18 months old, he treats her like his own and her biological father is not on the scene these days (her choice, he was being a total cunt and she cut contact last year).

Eldest DD will be 18 in a couple of months. She has always been quite nerdy and generally a "good girl", always very responsible, never really going out on the piss, only ever had one boyfriend last year and too my knowledge hasn't even had sex yet - though I realise I might be wrong on this front. So we've never really experienced most of the trials and tribulations that most parents of teenagers experience.

So a couple of days ago DD asks if she can go to her (male) friend's house in the afternoon, after work. She has met this lad through a mutual friend last summer and met him a few times, never been to his place. Not that it makes much of a difference I suppose, but he is 18 and still lives at home. She informs me she will be taking public transport home and get home around 9pm. Of course, no problem. She then asks I'd she would be allowed to have a few drinks at this lads house. I say yes, sure but don't get drunk (last year, one one of the extremely rare occasions DD went for a night out she got extremely drunk and was very lucky she didn't die, due to engaging in some pretty stupid behaviour. It was awful and she knows I still get a bit twitchy when she mentions having a drink, hence her asking if I would mind). So as not to dripfeed, DD was diagnosed with depression last year, mostly brought on by her biological father's cuntish behaviour, and has had a course of ADs and counselling. She dropped out of school and lost a lot of friends at the time. She is much better now and to be honest I'm fucking delighted she is making new friends and going out socialising again!

So as promised, DD came home an out 9:30 last night, obviously quite tipsy. I made her some food, we sat down together while she was eating and she told me she had a fab time - this lad had another mate round who DD knew from school and together they had a few alcopops and played xbox. DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word, where he stayed until all DD had gone to bed. When he eventually reappeared I asked him what the matter was as I could tell something was up.

Apparently "he didn't like what he was hearing", so to avoid an argument he thought he would go upstairs. Turns out DH thought it was not ok that DD was in the house with two lads drinking alcohol. He kept asking me if I was ok with it - umm yes?! It was the afternoon, she informed me of her plans, checked if she was allowed a few drinks, didn't get legless and came home as she had promised. I really fail to see the problem! But no - apparently DH, who used to get pissed and take drugs in his mother's shed with his mates from the age of 15 feels it's wrong for a girl to be in the hose with two lads drinking. At very nearly 18 years of age. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I feel that given his own youth he clearly has horrendous double standards, and it makes me really angry that in his head he is turning an afternoon of fun into something seedy and inappropriate. I wasn't even able to discuss this with him - apparently I can't criticise his view because "that is his opinion", and what is he possibly meant to do if this is how he feels?!
I suddenly feel like I am married to some matron from the dark ages and I now absolutely dread our middle DD starting to go out and be a teenager in a few years. His attitude makes me so angry and his complete refusal to discuss the matter is IMO just ridiculous. AIBU to really struggle to get past this? I have no idea how to deal with his attitude!

YANBU OP. It's the double standard that gets me. If parents want to be protective of their kids, brilliant. But being protective of only one gender really winds me up, because it's always seems to manifest as control and restriction of freedom, and it's always aimed at girls far more than at boys.

(Obviously I don't know whether your OP will be just as protective of his son when he gets to that age. Maybe he'll prove me wrong!)

Men are at much higher risk of violent crime than women, so why do we never hear about men telling their sons that they can't walk home alone because they're a boy?

I know it's risk for women to walk home alone too (women are at risk of sexual assault, men are at risk of violent assault) but somehow we only ever hear about how women shouldn't go out alone at night. Paternalistic attitudes only seem to restrict women, and never boys.

I don't think his attitude is ridiculous. Your DD is vulnerable. She has had depression. Her dad (not her step-dad) was abusive (I'm guessing from your name-calling) which means her views of acceptable behaviour from men may be skewed. She has been at risk previously through drinking.
You need to enable her to make good decisions and her previous history will impact on her ability to do so.
Most of the boys I spent time with as a teen lived nearby. My family knew their families. It gave a degree of security. A false security as it happens because when I was in my 20's and had a wider social circle, I left my drink with a couple I'd known for over a year. Their friend slipped something into my drink.Luckily another female friend realised and made sure I got home safely. That experience definitely impacted how I viewed drinking with someone I didn't know.

I agree with Harrietsmith's list. on page 5.
You have a daughter who has a history of depression which can make her quite vulnerable to the effects of alcohol.
You have a girl alone in a house with a guy she know a bit, and another guy joins in. Right at this point the evening could have gone either way so what was your daughter's exit strategy?

Without being dramatic this situation could have gone either way and you (and to be fair your DH) have not sat down and explained to her how vulnerable she was. How alcohol can affect choices you make especially when you are depressed.
You don't have to tell her what to do but you can advise her, just like people come onto MN for advice.
She was in a vulnerable position. And you being pissed off about double standards and sexism doesn't change the fact that your daughter was vulnerable and you see it as her just having a laugh.

I don’t think it’s a big deal at all that she was alone with two guys at age 18 She’s an adult. When I was 18 I was going out drinking twice a week in the nearest city and stayed over with guys I’d just met. Slept with the ones I fancied.

I know now how dangerous that was but IMO your dd hasn’t done anything that bad.

Where are all the mums sulking about their boys spending time with girls? Stomping off cos they can’t even bear to hear a discussion about time spent with female friends? Not really happening, is it?

They're in the many MIL threads on here, that's where. Several of my boyfriends' mothers were horrible to me when I was dating their sons, for no other reason than that I was "stealing" their little boys.

"I know now how dangerous that was but IMO your dd hasn’t done anything that bad."

She hasn't done anything "bad" at all. She's done something that a in a depressed 17 year old with low self esteem who doesn't handle alcohol well could have led her into a potentially damaging situation.

Where are all the mums sulking about their boys spending time with girls? Stomping off cos they can’t even bear to hear a discussion about time spent with female friends? Not really happening, is it

It's not the same thing and you know that.

I know now how dangerous that was...

Puppy, so wouldn't you therefore use the benefit of you knowledge to advise any daughter of yours NOT to do likewise, since you now know how dangerous your behaviour was?

Men are at much higher risk of violent crime than women, so why do we never hear about men telling their sons that they can't walk home alone because they're a boy?
We do tell our dogs, but not about walking home alone.
We tell them to be careful wearing colours (shirts) attending football matches. We tell them to walk away from dodgy situations. To keep a low profile. Not to show off. These are different situations where danger presents itself to boys / young men. We also tell them that drinking a lot and girls are a bit as mix because not all young women are as old as they claim to be, and consent between two drunk people is close to impossible etc.

Boys not dogs!

Men are at much higher risk of violent crime than women, so why do we never hear about men telling their sons that they can't walk home alone because they're a boy?

I tell my sons that, of course I do. Who doesn't?

Drinking and girls are a bad mix. Damn keyboard prediction.
A bad mix because judgment between both parties is impaired.

I don't tell my boys or girls not to walk home alone. I do tell them to be sensible and look out for themselves and other people.

Lannie why are you talking about people walking home alone or being out in the dark alone? The OP's DD did neither of those things - she was alone and drinking alcohol with two relatively strange young men in an unfamiliar place during the day, and she travelled on public transport alone while intoxicated. I wouldn't be keen on my son doing the latter as a vulnerable 17 year old, and I wouldn't be overly enthused about the former though admittedly I'd be less concerned about rape.

I don't think he's being ridiculous In worrying

At 17 I was working , had my own car , boyfriend and basically had my own social life . Still lived at home and respected my parents and the house obviously but essentially I was an adult . When I think of my dc at 17 tho in the future I can't imagine being as relaxed as my parents tho ! Double standards I know !!

I am a proud feminist and I would be disapproving and concerned about my dd at 17 drinking alcopops in the daytime with two lads in a non public place.

We have a "going out" conversation with our teenage boys every time they go out.

Always walk away from trouble, be respectful of the women you are with, don't have sex without a condom or consent and remember consent can get blurred when alcohol is involved. Try not to drink so much that you don't know what you dare doing, if you are thinking of taking drugs remember you have to decide if you are willing to take the risk before you take it, call me at any time day or night no matter what the reason if you or your friends need help, I will always come.

Oh and enjoy your night out

The risks might be different for boys but there are still risks

I think we should be warning all young people to be careful in such situations. Going to the home of someone you barely know with someone else you don’t know at all is risky behaviour even more so with alcohol added in.

It’s very different from it being with friends you have known for a long time.

nokidshere-that sounds very like mine. But because of where we like, I add in a bit about never going more than ankle deep in the sea when it's dark or your're drunk and be incredibly careful around driftwood fires....

I agree with you OP. Your daughter did nothing wrong. She communicated with you about where she was going and who with and when she would be back... and followed through on everything she said. That is really what you want from an older teen.
Your DH is being ridiculous and his attitude is the one that puts young girls at risk because it causes them to lie and be afraid to confide in their parents.
Because you knew exactly where she was and who she was with and when she should be back.... it does not matter that she was with two boys because im sure she would have felt very safe to leave or ring you at any point knowing that she would not be in any trouble. You also knew where she was and what time she could be relied upon to get back which means that if she hadnt turned up at that time you could have easily gone to check if there was any problem.

At her age honesty trust and communication are so valuable and you really dont want your DHs attitude sabotaging that.
It was good he took himself upstairs so he didnt upset her but I do think you need to try and get through to him how negatively his opinions may effect her and not give the end result of protecting her at all like he may hope.

I don’t think he is being ridiculous. He sounds like a concerned father who didn’t undermine you by stopping your chat over supper and expressing his worries, but couldn’t stay and join in or endorse something he sincerely thought was unwise. We often hear on mumsnet why couldn’t people just walk away instead of getting into a row, and he did that.

From what you report it sounds as if he’s fine discussing it, you’re just not fine about hearing his point of view.

I agree with other posters it’s not an ideal social scenario.
Alcopops in the afternoon would concern me for an adult. A healthy attitude to alcohol doesn’t involve afternoon drinking—especially if you’re gaming and having fun with that.

I suspect you’re so pleased she’s getting out again, you don’t want to put bars in the way, and your very strong emotions about your husband’s reaction may stem from a deep down sense that he has a point. I’d suggest you stop thinking about it in such opposite terms.

I used to work on a phoneline supporting survivors of abuse. And a lot of them were young women who were lonely and separated from their friendship group. They with people they thought were mates, but who they didn't know that well - and then alcohol got involved, and they don't remember everything but they know something went wrong.

There is also a grooming process. Whereby 'friends' see how far you will go. So the first time it is just a few drinks. And the next time it is a few more than that, and maybe a spliff or two as well. And perhaps it's the next time that the physical stuff starts - because of course they really like you, and they're just being 'friendly.' Also if you had any problem with that, you'd have never had the drinks or gone there in the first place would you?

I was talking about treating boys and girls differently. I wrote a long post explaining further, but I'm not sure how relevant it is to the thread really because the OP's OH may not do that. So I'll stop derailing ;)

Alcopops in the afternoon would concern me for an adult. A healthy attitude to alcohol doesn’t involve afternoon drinking—especially if you’re gaming and having fun with that.

Totally agree.

Yes he did do that... walking away that is. Then he sulked for the next day or two and refused to discuss it with his wife. She has tried time and time again... RTFT.