In thinking DH's attitude is absolutely ridiculous? I'm seething!

[justkeeponsmiling]

For reference, we have 3 DC: DD (17), DD (12) ), DS (8). DH and I got together when eldest DD was 18 months old, he treats her like his own and her biological father is not on the scene these days (her choice, he was being a total cunt and she cut contact last year).

Eldest DD will be 18 in a couple of months. She has always been quite nerdy and generally a "good girl", always very responsible, never really going out on the piss, only ever had one boyfriend last year and too my knowledge hasn't even had sex yet - though I realise I might be wrong on this front. So we've never really experienced most of the trials and tribulations that most parents of teenagers experience.

So a couple of days ago DD asks if she can go to her (male) friend's house in the afternoon, after work. She has met this lad through a mutual friend last summer and met him a few times, never been to his place. Not that it makes much of a difference I suppose, but he is 18 and still lives at home. She informs me she will be taking public transport home and get home around 9pm. Of course, no problem. She then asks I'd she would be allowed to have a few drinks at this lads house. I say yes, sure but don't get drunk (last year, one one of the extremely rare occasions DD went for a night out she got extremely drunk and was very lucky she didn't die, due to engaging in some pretty stupid behaviour. It was awful and she knows I still get a bit twitchy when she mentions having a drink, hence her asking if I would mind). So as not to dripfeed, DD was diagnosed with depression last year, mostly brought on by her biological father's cuntish behaviour, and has had a course of ADs and counselling. She dropped out of school and lost a lot of friends at the time. She is much better now and to be honest I'm fucking delighted she is making new friends and going out socialising again!

So as promised, DD came home an out 9:30 last night, obviously quite tipsy. I made her some food, we sat down together while she was eating and she told me she had a fab time - this lad had another mate round who DD knew from school and together they had a few alcopops and played xbox. DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word, where he stayed until all DD had gone to bed. When he eventually reappeared I asked him what the matter was as I could tell something was up.

Apparently "he didn't like what he was hearing", so to avoid an argument he thought he would go upstairs. Turns out DH thought it was not ok that DD was in the house with two lads drinking alcohol. He kept asking me if I was ok with it - umm yes?! It was the afternoon, she informed me of her plans, checked if she was allowed a few drinks, didn't get legless and came home as she had promised. I really fail to see the problem! But no - apparently DH, who used to get pissed and take drugs in his mother's shed with his mates from the age of 15 feels it's wrong for a girl to be in the hose with two lads drinking. At very nearly 18 years of age. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I feel that given his own youth he clearly has horrendous double standards, and it makes me really angry that in his head he is turning an afternoon of fun into something seedy and inappropriate. I wasn't even able to discuss this with him - apparently I can't criticise his view because "that is his opinion", and what is he possibly meant to do if this is how he feels?!
I suddenly feel like I am married to some matron from the dark ages and I now absolutely dread our middle DD starting to go out and be a teenager in a few years. His attitude makes me so angry and his complete refusal to discuss the matter is IMO just ridiculous. AIBU to really struggle to get past this? I have no idea how to deal with his attitude!

Are boys are more at risk of violent crime than girls are at risk of being raped (I don't know the figures) ?

They are not more at risk however of being told they were asking for it, being disbelieved, cast as a liar, having their past dragged out in front of the world, having their genitals filmed and shown to a courtroom, being cross examined for days by hostile lawyers etc etc etc if they report the crime and it goes to court.

What are the figures for reporting and conviction of male on male assault (non sexual)?

I know that's not quite the point, but what can happen to a girl IMO is worse than what can happen to a boy

One reason this thread is out of kilter seems to the be the discussion as to whether the DD did anything "wrong".
No OPs DD did nothing wrong, but the thing is not doing anything "wrong" or diverting from the agreed plan doesn't mean she wasn't vulnerable and the OP seems reluctant to see that side of this.

*I agree with you OP. Your daughter did nothing wrong. She communicated with you about where she was going and who with and when she would be back... and followed through on everything she said. That is really what you want from an older teen.
Your DH is being ridiculous and his attitude is the one that puts young girls at risk because it causes them to lie and be afraid to confide in their parents. *

Nobody has said any of the teens did anything wrong at all. But alcohol diminishes judgment (for all three) and an afternoon drinking behind closed doors CAN (and sometimes does) lead to upset, or far worse.

Are you really now suggesting a father's concern about that puts young girls at risk?
What you are effectively telling us fathers is - to protect your daughters, keep your mouth shut over any concern.

The OP didn't state she knew the lad's address, only that her daughter had never been there before and would take public transport home.
The other lad was a total stranger.

Her father (I'm using that word, because effectively that's what he's been for 18 years) didn't stop it, he didn't argue, he simply felt uncomfortable about the situation that had occurred. He didn't like what he was hearing. Does he not have a right to his own feelings about it? Is he automatically supposed to like everything that happens?
I don't like a lot of what my daughter does either, because I worry, and because I know not everybody will look out for her best interests, and yes, because she makes mistakes herself.
I love that she can drive. I don't like her travelling alone for long distances. I love that she can afford to buy her own car, but I don't like that she might overstretch herself financially. It's part of being a parent to not always like what your children do, or situations they put themselves in.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a girl spending time with male friends alone, but there is also nothing wrong with a father worrying not so much about what DID happen, but about what could have happened.
There was no guarantee he actually did live with his mother. There was no guarantee his friend wasn't a problem, there was no guarantee they wouldn't get drunk (as they often do my underestimating the effects) and being 'tipsy' on public transport can be an issue in itself.

So really, concerned dads are putting our daughters at risk?
We're being dads. Not their best mates.

I know that's not quite the point, but what can happen to a girl IMO is worse than what can happen to a boy

Try telling that to the 164 sets of parents who's 16-24 yr olds died on nights out last year

It's not a competition - it's about keeping all our young people safe. Ultimately what we teach our sons will (hopefully) have a direct impact of increasing the safety of our daughters.

I think for me there are 'red flags' about vulnerability.

• One parent who is perhaps a bit too keen to get her daughter out and about, after a period of emotional ill health.
• A step-parent whose concerns are being sidelined.
• Distress about a poor relationship with her biological father which has now come to an end.
• Having drunk too much and put herself at physical risk on a previous occasion.
• Having decided she didn't want to cut short offered counselling.
• Perhaps feeling that she doesn't 'belong' in the family - or is cared for as much as her two younger siblings, who have both their parents living with them.

thebrilliantmistake if its a nearly adult daughter then yes you are putting her at risk by denying her agency. Shes soon going to be having to navigate these situations all the time herself. Its best if she can confide in you without judgement.

Im not talking about expressing concern or giving an opinion here. The things you have described as worries are fairly normal and fine to discuss. The OPs partner was not doing that though, he was upset enough by this to essentially storm off and then asked the op if 'she was okay with it?' That is not giving an opinion that is reacting angrily in a way that may alienate his daughter. It is not up to him to be 'okay' with it at this stage of his daughters life that level of control has to lessen because it really will negatively effect her.

She needs to be able to have the confidence to decide for herself what situations to be in and who to trust. And she needs to be able to come to her parents and talk openly about any worries or concerns she has without the risk of someone laying down the law. She is a few months away from being a legal adult and I really dont feel that parenting by laying down the law will be beneficial now. In fact it may harm her relationship with her mother which seems very open and trusting.
My point was that in reacting angrily and wanting the OP to react angrily he is doing more harm than good.

I mean he stormed off and then sulked. That is a far cry from merely expressing some concern.
Idve been more sympathetic to him if he had merely mentioned that she should be careful when drinking with guys she didnt know too well and left it at that. But his actions do indicate anger and I do feel that that is unreasonable and damaging especially to someone who may have low self esteem due to a period of depression and being treated badly by biological father. It does not translate as concern it translates as emotionally controlling.

DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word

That is not storming off, that's keeping his opinion to himself and withdrawing from hearing what he considered to be an uncomfortable hearing.

As for denying a young girl agency, alcohol will do that with far greater effect. Drinking alcohol most of the afternoon poses a far greater risk to a woman's agency than a concerned dad (imo).

I had this and what I did was go to Penneys and buy 5 of the exact same outfit from joggers, socks, vest, tee shirt and cheapest runners I could find and that's what he went in, ex wasn't impressed with having him in the same outfit, mind you it took the twat till week 3 before he realised it!!!!!
I'd get yourself to the local charity shop and buy clothes for daddys, they just need to fit and be clean and start a diary of what is not returned, if he insists on court be prepared!

Sorry wrong thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been more sympathetic to him if he had merely mentioned that she should be careful when drinking with guys she didnt know too well and left it at that. But his actions do indicate anger and I do feel that that is unreasonable and damaging especially to someone who may have low self esteem due to a period of depression and being treated badly by biological father. It does not translate as concern it translates as emotionally controlling.

I agree it would have been better to express the possible dangers of drinking with guys she didn't know all that well, and one she didn't know at all.
I disagree with the huge extrapolation leading to the 'emotionally controlling' and damaging accusation. Those assertions are astounding.

How is the op's husband sexist? I assume his objection wasn't about her being "unladylike." I think it was a safety thing.

We live in a sexist world and the fact is that young girls drinking alone with young men can find themselves in perilous situations.

She did know the other lad though she was at school with him. I think this is a complete overreaction. I think OHs reaction was OTT and based on what he was like and assuming all lads like that. She has to be trusted to make her own decisions about people and yes there is a vulnerability there and maybe have a chat about what is and isn't a vulnerable situation but we can't remove all risk, we can suggest ways to manage situations and we can be at the end of a phone. We can't always protect kids from mistakes we made just by warning them off everyone and mollycoddling them

At 16 I went to an all boys school where girls could join at 6th form. There were only a handful of girls so there were always loads more boys, sometimes all boys. We drank, we had fun, sometimes there was kissing. Mostly we just hung out as mates. We all stayed over at each other's houses, boys, girls whatever - it would have been awful if my parents had been weird about it

When you drink alcohol, particularly to the point of being tipsy (or worse), then we all become more vulnerable. It doesn't have to mean something as horrific as rape might occur, but simply that our decision making is impaired. That can lead to losing track of time, missing a bus, a drunken kiss or casual sex etc. It's the same for the lads involved too, their decision making changes. Some people become aggressive with drink, others fall asleep, others get aroused.

It's bad enough for adults, but with younger people, drink, hormones, depression, boys and girls - it simply amplifies things. The term alcopops makes it sound trivial, but they are just as potent as regular alcoholic drinks.

The more you drink, the more vulnerable you become. Male or female.
I'm not keen on either my son or daughter drinking heavily, and you can bet your bottom dollar I'd not be happy about drinking in the afternoon after a near death experience caused (in part) by previous a previous drinking episode. It seems a pretty natural fear on the man's part.

I've been more sympathetic to him if he had merely mentioned that she should be careful when drinking with guys she didnt know too well and left it at that. But his actions do indicate anger and I do feel that that is unreasonable and damaging especially to someone who may have low self esteem due to a period of depression and being treated badly by biological father. It does not translate as concern it translates as emotionally controlling.

Maybe he feels that his wife 'seething' at his temerity to think differently than her is controlling?

OP lost me at her description of her husband 'sulking' at this girl having a boyfriend who was unemployed, on the dole, and playing x-box all day. He's probably tired of her not supporting him in demanding more of his stepdaughter's choices.

So the first he hears about this is her telling you what a great time she's had with these lads, whilst 'obviously tipsy'.

Was this the first time he'd seen her 'tipsy' since she got drunk and nearly died last year?

Where is the op??

"Where is the op??"

Having a life? Posting a thread doesn't chain one to the computer for the rest of its lifetime.

Brilliantmistake
'I disagree with the huge extrapolation leading to the 'emotionally controlling' and damaging accusation. Those assertions are astounding.'

'He has shown tendencies before now, when DD had a boyfriend. It was an extremely stressful time because he was totally unable to deal with the situation and behaved like a moody twat at times. I tried to challenge him then and got nowhere due to his refusal to discuss any aspect of it.'
'he didn't quietly remove himself, he marched out clearly sulking and carried on sulking all night and the next day. This is his way sadly - he doesn't address an issue he just sulks and is in a mood and brings the mood of the whole house down.'
'DH used to refuse to discuss anything to do with him and instead went into a moody sulk at the mention of his name. So I used to have to make all the decisions about what boundaries to set for DD and I had nobody to act as a sounding board. I found it really tough. In the end I broke down and begged DH to please please get over himself and help me deal with the situation instead of silently disapproving of all my decisions WRT DD and her BF.'

based on these quotes from the OP I do not think it is an extrapolation or astounding to call him emotionally controlling and damaging

It's not very effective controlling if he's having no effect is it? If he's sulking, it's a sulk, but sulking isn't controlling.

We'll have to agree to disagree :-)

Truthfully I would be a bit anxious if my DD or a DN was drinking with a couple of teenage boys. It's not that I think all men are predators, but for the ones who are they are fully aware they can attack girls and women in these situations and far more often than not they get away with it, because people ask "Why did you go to a males house if you didn't want to have sex?" Why did you stay when you saw another male was there?" "Why were you comfortable drinking with them?" And there are reasonable answers to all these questions, yet in a court room setting they are huge gifts to any defense lawyer. Look at the case with the "innocent" rapist Irish rugby players - the victim got raked across the coals by lawyers because she wore a red dress to a party. That's the world we still live in. I can't be angry at your DH for being worried for his DD.

We shouldn't necessarily be worried about rape first and foremost (that's not to say we shouldn't worry at all), but it's far more likely that consenting mistakes are made due to alcohol and hormones. That goes for the boys too.

It's right to teach our kids to be careful and aware of the extreme brutality of something like rape, but we also need to educate them that you can just wake up having made some very bad choices due to drinking (or drugs) etc.

Sulking is not ok but as for the rest of it, I don’t think he’s wrong. If anything, I’d say you’re far too lax.

And have I missed something? Are you assuming it’s because she’s female or has he said that?

Look at the case with the "innocent" rapist Irish rugby players - the victim got raked across the coals by lawyers because she wore a red dress to a party.

And not because she was witnessed having sex with two famous men and seemingly being absolutely consenting?
They were deemed innocent. We must treat them as such.
You've effectively asserted they weren't innocent and she was a victim, ergo it was rape after all.

We can't go down that road as a society, or else the judiciary counts for nothing and all men are guilty, all women are innocent.
We KNOW that men carry out some appalling sexual acts and the vast majority of sexual and violent crimes are committed by men, but we cannot fall into the trap of believing all men are guilty.