To think that’s it’s cheeky as fuck to expect other people to fund your skin removal surgery?

[Lactofreechummy]

My friend had gastric bypass surgery last year after really struggling with her weight since childhood.

She has done amazingly well and lost over 11 stones.

Yesterday, I had a notification pop up on facebook.

My friend has set up a page where people can donate money to help fund her skin removal surgery. The target is set at £6,500.

As someone who has also lost a considerable amount of weight (5.5 stones) and also has some extra skin etc, I find it ludicrous to even think of asking for other’s to fund it. I have told my friend this and she said that she couldn’t think of any other way to raise funds quickly enough.

Hunger and satiety are driven by hormones, not a person’s rational thinking

put anyone in a (human!) boot camp, give them decent food ration and make them exercise. They will lose weight, and they won't cry with hunger.

It has been proven time and time again (by people much more knowledgeable than me!) that it has nothing to do with genes. There were very interesting research about seriously injured people and sudden lack of mobility + depression going with it, and how to get back on track.
Research as well about people who have been starved - litterally starved - going back to the "normal world" and the effect on their weight .

There might be a handful of people with REAL medical conditions, making them genuinely believe they are hungry constantly, but they do not account for the amount of obese people in the world.
For the majority, it's a choice. Pretending that it has nothing to do with them, is a lie and just push them to keep their lazy habits.

If someone is GENUINELY tortured by hunger every day of its life, give him proteins, and mainly fruits and vegs to feed that hunger. Funnily enough, not many people have a craving for tomatoes and carrots. (100g of tomatoes have approx 2.6g of sugar by the way, before we try to push the "sugar addiction" nonsense)

It has been proven time and time again (by people much more knowledgeable than me!) that it has nothing to do with genes

I am a geneticist. The hunger drive is partially dictated by genetics (ghrelin, PYY etc.) if you look at patients with Prader-Willi syndrome for example you can see the effect of extreme disregulation of hunger and drive to eat.

Willpower is a huge part, but to say genetics plays no part is incorrect. We are still unravelling the mechanisms. One reason gastric bypass type surgeries instantly improve metabolic markers seems to be the change in peptides secreted by the mid digestive system are altered.

It really is complicated. That doesn’t mean that individual has no control, a BIG part of it is individual control, but that doesn’t operate in a vacuum.

@ikeepfork I find over-eating just as hard, being invited for diner by someone giving you ridiculous portions that you must finish to be polite, meaning feeling lethargic, heavy, spending half the night with stomach cramps, I find that hard too.

I am nowhere like Liz Hurley, didn't need to jump back in a bikini 1 month after giving birth, so I've never cried with hunger or known anyone who had. Keeping reasonable healthy portions is a choice though.

There, you have said it yourself. Your hormonal regulation stops you physically overeating. You can’t stuff yourself past a certain point. Now try and imagine this regulation is broken and you never ever reach the ‘full’ feeling. On the contrary, you still feel hungry even after a big serving a food. You don’t know what it’s like. Exactly. Be grateful you don’t have to struggle with hunger every day every hour like some unfortunate souls. You have great willpower because it’s not needed.

As your first para clearly explains, ‘keeping reasonable healthy portions’ is not a choice. Your body regulates your food intake making it difficult for you to continue eating after a certain amount, even if you order yourself to continue to please the hosts. I am amazed you can’t see that you confirm the point yourself with your own example.

Your hormonal regulation stops you physically overeating.

no, my common sense does. My common sense make me not have another slice of cake, not drink any fizzy drinks.
My hormonal regulation might stop me from eating a portion size for a giant. My common sense stops me before I reach that stage.

@ikeepfotk you have just said you feel ill if you are forced to overeat. Or is it your common sense making you all nauseous and bloated?

@Hypermice if you look at patients with Prader-Willi syndrome for example you can see the effect of extreme disregulation of hunger and drive to eat. I bet those patients have been made to feel like gluttons in the decades before this link was discovered. Lacking in will power. And generally morally dubious.

We are still unravelling the mechanisms. One reason gastric bypass type surgeries instantly improve metabolic markers seems to be the change in peptides secreted by the mid digestive system are altered.

And as if by magic, gastric bypass patients’ willpower around food trebles in size after the op and their common sense improves beyond belief.

Let's say someone experienced an emotional trauma and developed anorexia. People would be full of sympathy and support for that person. If someone began binge eating as a way of coping, people would be full of condemnation and judgment.

Not a very good comparison because anorexia isn't strangling the NHS. If it were, I suspect the sympathy (which stems from thin appreciation, certainly, but also the fact that anorexia is correlated with being a high achiever) would wane.

Avasarala Fri 30-Mar-18 10:34:10

"For me, it's cherry coke. I can't buy I because if I buy a pack of 8, then I will drink 8 in one day.

So I don't buy it. I avoid that section of the supermarket. If I go out for a meal, I know I can order a glass. So I don't need it in the house"

Well Ava i have to have stuff like that in the house because another adult lives here besides me. And he likes things like Jaffa Cakes and choc biscuits etc.

My my Ava wheres your willpower

"Going a bit too far, someone like Liz Hurley freely admitted that she was reduced to tears being so hungry. That's pushing it, but she does look amazing"

Fork said this so can we at least stop pretending that this thread is anything to do with health now. Its all to do with the aesthetic and what is offensive to your eye.

Fork said this so can we at least stop pretending that this thread is anything to do with health now. Its all to do with the aesthetic and what is offensive to your eye.

Does Fork speak for all?

Hypermice Fri 30-Mar-18 12:56:12

"Liz Hurley is on record as once saying that if she was ‘as fat as Kate winslet’ she’d kill herself"

Thats disgusting. Mind you im sure that Kate Winslet worries herself sick about what Liz Hurley thinks while shes polishing all her awards.

Dont worry Rivendell Im just about to paste something into the thread for you to read.

ikeepaforkinmypurse
I agree about putting people in a boot camp or a controlled situation
Feed em , exercise like crazy and most will lose between 7 - lbs. I know I've done it a few times over the years as I like them and I did them even when I was overweight I enjoyed the team work
Ive known people who are 20 stone plus do boot camps and manage all week not to overeat.
But as soon as your back on the real world life the weight goes back on slowly

Life gets in the way you, can't exercise for 8 hrs a day. You don't have a chef cooking you healthy portion controlled meals are the support from other people and often the locations are far from any sort of shops where you can buy the sneaky bar of chocolate .

The only thing that has worked for myself, friends & family has been biatric surgery it's not a cheat I think it a strong thing to admit you can't control your eating .

I have a lovely life I have a wonderful husband , great family and friends don't have to work, absolutely no money worries fabulous holiday 3/ 4 times a year & can pretty much do what I want most of the time within reason but the one thing I wanted most was to control my eating and stay slim. But I couldn't do it no matter how many times I tried over 20 years

I've just had my lunch 2 slices of ham, some hummous and a bowl of mixed olives I couldn't eat all the olives and I'm stuffed .
In the past I would have had 4 slices of ham a lot more olives and probably a packet of crisp and 2 hrs later I would want some more to eat. In the past I could eat more than my 16 stone 6ft 3 DH

As someone who had a biatric surgery at a lowish BMI in Europe I honestly think that if people has surgery before they got obese so a BMI of over 30 they would be so much better for it long term

It would reduce the cost of people being treated for getting diabetes or hip and knee operations and other problems that come with being obese

Although I do think if they did this on the NHS then the patient should maybe co pay some of the cost of the surgery if it's not from other factors like medication, or long term illness at has caused the weight . probably not a popular opinion

Biatric surgery isn't just about restricting the size of the stomach which is what most people assume
from what I can remember it actually reduces ghrelin which is the hormone that tells you your hungry ( someone more clever than me can probably explain it better and properly )
In many obese people ghrelin are altered so they never actually feel full up like someone who has normal levels

Obesity is so much more than just stuffing your face with food, genetic and genes do have a big part in being overweight .

Since you mentioned anorexia.....

From another thread on here.

upsideup Wed 28-Mar-18 17:30:10

You absolutely are not being unreasonable, thats awful and reconstruction definately shouldnt have to be paid for by you.
I was told I could qualify for a boob job on the NHS as being underweight due to anorexia in my teens meant my breasts hadnt developed properly, they werent disformed, uncomfortable or inpracticle just small.
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ItsAllDoomAndGloom Wed 28-Mar-18 17:30:27

Bloody hell. thanks
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HelenaDove Wed 28-Mar-18 17:36:41

upsideup thats great but its in stark contrast to what people have been told on the skin removal surgery thread.

A poster has been told she doesnt qualify for that surgery despite losing 20 stone and her folds of skin having the possibility of becoming infected"

upsideup Wed 28-Mar-18 17:51:38

HelenaDove

Thats what I was suggesting. That its insane to think someone who medically needs reconstruction and has be left in pain and uncomfortable due to surgery/illness/lifestyle wouldnt qualify but yet I and other people to which the surgery would be purely cosmetic do.
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HelenaDove Wed 28-Mar-18 17:54:44

YY upside Im sorry to hear about your struggles with anorexia

". a 12 or 14. In most cases, depending on height, that's not morbidly obese but it is overweight. "

Ava im a 14 down from a 28 im fine as i am and happy as i am.

When i was bigger i was a 46G Now im a 32HH Because i keep losing and losing off my back.

Something that i also have is lipodema. My gran had it Its hereditary and causes swollen legs. My right leg can be painful when im lying in bed at night. Losing weight helped but does not eradicate it.

i cant really go back in time and hand my granddad a condom so im stuck with it.

Does Fork speak for all?
apparently, and she is really flattered

When posters start trying to argue that you can be obese and healthy, I do give up!

My neighbour's DD has Prader-Willi syndrome. She has learning disability which I always assumed was part of the syndrome. There is no way she can regulate her appetite, mentally she is like a 4 or 5 year old although she is an adult and she is always hungry.

She will steal food, I had to intervene when she ducked out of getting on the school bus one morning, her mum dropped her at the pick up point and took the other kids to school, and went into a local shop and stole food, they were calling the police and I explained and took her home.

I don't think it is fair to judge people unless you know their story and unless you know them well why would you?

I have been an 8 all my life until I suddenly put on weight, I had other symptoms but was ignored, eventually the doctor took a blood test and I had hypothyroidism. As soon as I was on medication to replace the thyroxine the weight dropped off. Admittedly I was obese but I was overweight and didn't know why, I was eating less than usual and putting on weight.

Who is saying that you can be obese and healthy.

Im a 14 Im not obese. i used to be.

i really dont think your purse is where you keep your fork.

i lost ten stone through bloody willpower Yes i was hungry a lot of the time and it actually caused sharp stomach pains but i stopped that by dosing up on paracetamol and ibuprofen.

Its not a great idea to take too many pills but it did help at the time.

Do you know what lipodema is Fork Its a medical condition. My gran was slim all over except for her legs.

a size 8 friend i used to work with is in and out of hospital with heart disease. She lived on takeaways and chocolate but stayed slim so no problem Or so she thought. But her arteries were/are completely clogged.

my last takeaway was in 2004.

Mine was last night, but I’ve only had a small breakfast today and a bit of fruit for lunch as I’m still full from it.

Appetite/satiety is v complicated as the geneticist says upthread. Serotonin has been fond to be released in the gut, or something like that - totally bizarre

Serotonin...............isnt that what they call the happy hormone.

Helena, you remain the undisputed champ of whataboutery.