To think that’s it’s cheeky as fuck to expect other people to fund your skin removal surgery?

[Lactofreechummy]

My friend had gastric bypass surgery last year after really struggling with her weight since childhood.

She has done amazingly well and lost over 11 stones.

Yesterday, I had a notification pop up on facebook.

My friend has set up a page where people can donate money to help fund her skin removal surgery. The target is set at £6,500.

As someone who has also lost a considerable amount of weight (5.5 stones) and also has some extra skin etc, I find it ludicrous to even think of asking for other’s to fund it. I have told my friend this and she said that she couldn’t think of any other way to raise funds quickly enough.

id still like an answer to an earlier question. Should football fans who CHOOSE to go to Russia for the World Cup in this political climate expect treatment off the NHS if they are injured in fights over there?

Well, I didn't see that question. But they're not getting injured over here - they'll be injured in Russia and travel insurance will cover their medical bills. If they don't take travel insurance then they'll be hit with the bills (or not. I have no idea how healthcare works in Russia).
So that's really a pointless comparison.

Also, unless out government issues a "do not travel" recommendation, then people have the reasonable expectation of things not going terribly wrong. If they're told not to travel, and do anyway, then their idiots.

Sally ive PMed you.

Yes ava I lost it but regained it within a year with an extra stone on top and it also made me quite ill.
If I hadn't been bullied by the Consultant to lose it fast for op without support so may not have screwed up my metabolism again.
I am in a better place now emotionally and I am losing it slowly with the help of the gym and my fitness pal.

I am reading with interest because I am in recovery with Overeaters Anonymous for binge eating issues (and also suffer with PCOS and am on a lot of mental health related medication too) but am losing weight slowly but surely and soon I will be in LactoFree's friend's position- I already am seeing a lot a loose skin on my arms, thighs and abdomen. I am scared because I suspect I will need a tummy tuck or lipo or something.

I do not think it is unreasonable for NHS to refuse to fund it (except in cases of loose skin causing infections etc) but I have no problem with crowdfunding idea. Nobody forces anyone to donate to GFM, so I honestly do not see the problem. I am not saying I necessarily would crowdfund, as those who know me are skint but I would not rule it out if i felt desperate enough. And considering my weight issues are caused by 3 medical issues (medication, PCOS and BED) then if the NHS offered me skin removal surgery I probably would not say no either. Yes, I'm a hypocrite. But I do not think I could honestly turn it down either. I'd like to say I would be noble and refuse. But I doubt I have that much intrgrity tbh.

I hope it remains.

HelenaDove I also hope it remains. Us larger people have insight into these issues and the experiences we share on threads like these should not be erased. Apologies if this sounds a bit pompous and "identity politics-y." I am just so tired of people not understanding the very real issues we deal with. Just because it gets heated at times? I wish MNHQ would not be so trigger happy sometimes.

For the love of guinea pigs, WHY is this thread being taken down???

Yes We should not be erased.

Avasarala

Over & over again you are showing your complete & utter ignorance.

Smugness really is unattractive.

I used to be a nicer person, but after years of this type of crap, I realise that the only way people like you will ever understand is when it happens to you.

I don’t really blame you. I used to be under 8 stone, too light to give blood. Then I got ill and life hasn’t been the same since. If it hadn’t happened to me, I probably would have been a smug twat in my 20’s, but by the time I hit 30 I’m sure I’d have grown up enough to listen to people & understand it’s not all about slim people thinking they’ve ‘got this’ and other people are just too stupid & too lazy to eat right and exercise.

However, I understand it’s scary to accept that, because it means one day you might be obese too, through something you can’t change or control. It’s far easier to close your mind to that possibility.

The one thing with biaatric surgery is that if you do put on a few pounds when you have lost all the weight it's very easy to lose it again
within a few days .

I had it done several years ago ( privately ) and I wasn't particularly overweight either but I had struggled to lose weight for more than 20 years but I find it's much easier to keep my weight stable than I ever did before since I had the surgery

I think it's actually much more beneficial to have biatric surgery the way I did when I actually wasn't massively overweight than ballon up to say 250 lbs or more
I had mine done in Europe and it was a fraction of the 10k they want in the UK
More and more people are taking this option when they have a much lower BMI as it prevents them from getting massively overweight so it's more beneficial to them in the long term

@bonnyshide "neither should her friends"?

Where on earth do you get off deciding what her friends or anyone else should or shouldn't spend their money on? You're not even opining, but saying what other people should do. The Professionally Outraged would be hilarious if they weren't so tragic.

I don't get how this thread is going. OP didn't once mention the NHS, and her friend is trying to raise money to help pay for surgery privately. As with all crowdfunding, it is absolutely the individual's choice whether or not they donate money to a cause they feel is worthy of their hard-earned cash. If you don't like it, don't donate. It really is as simple as that.

@AnnieAnoniMouser

Over and over I have said that in the cases the underlying health conditions/medications causing weight gain/mental illness or disorder then they should be given all the help.

But the fact is, that's not the majority of cases. I'm not talking about the cases where someone needs very deep help. I'm talking about people who simply make bad food choices and lice a sedentary lifestyle.

The average size in this country is what... a 12 or 14. In most cases, depending on height, that's not morbidly obese but it is overweight and people should be doing something about it. It's become the norm tonnes a bit tubby- but that doesn't make it healthy. Allowing that to be acceptable has made it easier for seriously obese people to feel that it's really not that bad. And then we end up with people needing skin removal.

If I were a millionaire, id happily pay for people to have that surgery. It wouldn't be a lot for someone swimming in money. But for the NHS - £30,000 per person is too much when it's self inflicted.

My point- get help and do something before you get to that stage.

But they got themselves into that state so why should the NHS pick up the pieces afterwards?

Does that go for everything? So you break you leg playing football, well you chose to play football. You are seriously injured in a car crash, well you chose to be in a car. You were an athlete when younger and now you have painful knees, you had fun with your sport your damaged knees are your own fault. Loads of conditions can be classed as self inflicted, haven't even touched on alcohol, tobacco, drugs etc.

Avasarala

Over and over I have said that in the cases the underlying health conditions/medications causing weight gain/mental illness or disorder then they should be given all the help

Do you not understand that it’s not that easy to pin point exact causes? It doesn’t mean they aren’t causing the problem, just that it’s unclear how each bit is playing it’s part.

But the fact is, that's not the majority of cases

The medical profession disagree with you and are doing a lot of research to attempt to find & resolve issues.

I'm not talking about the cases where someone needs very deep help. I'm talking about people who simply make bad food choices and lice a sedentary lifestyle

A much, much, much smaller percentage than you seem to think and you don’t know who fits into each group. You just make assumptions.

The average size in this country is what... a 12 or 14. In most cases, depending on height, that's not morbidly obese but it is overweight and people should be doing something about it. It's become the norm tonnes a bit tubby- but that doesn't make it healthy. Allowing that to be acceptable has made it easier for seriously obese people to feel that it's really not that bad. And then we end up with people needing skin removal

Rubbish. No one seriously over weight thinks ‘it’s not that bad’. No one gets to a size where they need skin removal after weight loss without some issues, whether they’re physical, emotional, mental or whatever. People who are physically well, emotionally stable and mentally healthy don’t end up extremely obese. It’s not always onbious where the problem is, but there is one.

If I were a millionaire, id happily pay for people to have that surgery. It wouldn't be a lot for someone swimming in money

I doubt that very much as you think it’s self inflicted.

But for the NHS - £30,000 per person is too much when it's self inflicted

There you go again. It’s self inflicted. Give your head a wobble. Do you really think people get morbidly obese for the shits & giggles?

My point- get help and do something before you get to that stage

Honestly, you don’t get it, until you’re in that position you probably never will. You just think the majority of people get morbidly obese because they’re greedy & lazy and until it happens to you, or a loved one, it’s going to be beyond your comprehension to see that’s just not the case.

The problem is, society's perception of obesity is that it is synonymous with laziness and poor self-respect, and it will remain that way no matter how many adverts featuring Tess "F your Beauty Standards" Holliday that the media try to force on us.
Because being obese is (minus medical conditions) largely a self-inflicted state, people's sympathy wanes when the obese fail to take any accountability for the choices which led them there.
I think that's why some people find it cheeky to ask strangers to fund a surgery to fix a problem you walked into with open eyes.

Disclaimer as this is a sensitive issue I know- I'm currently 2st overweight now because I've been lazy and greedy in the cold weather the last 4 months. I've noticed I've become kind of invisible, just by going up 2 dress sizes. Society is largely disgusted by obesity, and I don't see it changing.

No one can possibly get to that size without stopping halfway towards it and thinking "i need to do something".

Eating is a coping mechanism for some people - there are plenty of other ways to cope and there's plenty hell for you to find them.

If you don't get help before you end up disabled due to weight, then the NHS should not be forking out thousands to help you now. It cannot afford it.

Carry on shouting that it's "not their fault". It is. Either choosing a terrible lifestyle, or not engaging help sooner. The NHS cannot afford to help them.

As I said, I don't thinks he's cheeky asking for money if people want to donate it, that's their choice. My issue was all the people replying to say that the NHS should pay. No they shouldn't.

Obesity is an avoidable problem. Whatever the reason for it. But when you examine these peoples diets, it's not hard to see why. And that is something which can be changed with some effort. For gods sake, I know someone who took their hugely obese child to McDonald's as a reward for losing a bit of weight.... See the problem?

If you really can't stop eating - fine. Exercise. You wanna eat opti excess, then work it off. If you choose not to, then don't expect the NHS to pay. I've no issue with people choosing to spend their money on someone for it, but the NHS does not have that money.

@peacheachpearplum

We've already covered most of that so I'm not even going to ensure you further.

Avasarala you don’t listen, so there’s no point discussing it with you any further. I’m actually at the point now where I wish my health on you, you can act like a lab rat, you can have invasive tests, you can spend your life absolutely, bone shatteringly, exhausted, you can have all the patronising ‘help’ that’s out there. Feel free then to tell me it’s all so fucking easy.

No one can possibly get to that size without stopping halfway towards it and thinking "i need to do something about it

And the small but significant number who have been hammered by disease?- steroid treatments for example for some cancer patients, Cushings disease, disability coupled with drug treatments...plus lowered mobility from feeling terrible? Are they greedy fuckers too or are they the ‘worthy fat?’

I’ve seen young slim patients who were running long distances balloon on such treatments. It’s extremely distressing for them.

It’s not all as simple as uncontrolled pie eating. Even things like PCOS or thyroid dysfunction can affect energy balance. Long term that can create issues.
Depot treatments for things like schizophrenia can also result in quite extreme weight gain.

If it was as easy as just reigning it in a bit we wouldnt have an obesity problem. Not everything that’s simple is easy - you want to climb Mount Everest, you just keep going up, right? Dead simple.
Obese people are people too - it’s quite disturbing how they are treated in society.

Have a bit of compassion, and hope you never end up on some of these treatments while your mobility is restricted.

Avasarala
No one can possibly get to that size without stopping halfway towards it and thinking "i need to do something".

I don't think this shows a good (any?) understanding of how human minds work. Everybody has blind spots - things that one person finds easy another may find difficult, however competent they may be in other areas of life.

It would be very complex to fund medical treatment in the way you are suggesting (yes to medical causes; no to lifestyle causes). Causes are usually multifactorial.

@Hypermice

Please learn to read. I have said over and over that my comments are not in reference to people with diagnoses conditions, medications, past abuse, mental illness etc.

When the situation is caused by that, they should be getting all the help available.

The fact is, this happened when processed foods became prominent. If people made different food choices, then even those who want to eat piles and piles of food, could do so.

The reason this problem gets worse and worse is that when anyone speaks up to say "obese people need to take responsibility" they get attacked for shaming people.

Treat everyone before they become hugely obese. Counselling, cooking courses, whatever.

That stuff is available and a lot of it is cheap to pay for, or available free online.

But instead of using those resources, which I found with 30 seconds of googling, people get huge then go running to the NHS.

Please learn to read. I have said over and over that my comments are not in reference to people with diagnoses conditions, medications, past abuse, mental illness etc.

Yes I’ve read all your comments. So the ‘worthy fat’ then. Do you believe in the ‘genteel poor’ too? How gracious.

What percentage of morbidly obese people do you think have no mental heath issues around food? Clue: roughly the same proportion as those with a BMI of about 15.

You are lacking in sympathy - treatment should be assigned on clinical NEED.