To think that’s it’s cheeky as fuck to expect other people to fund your skin removal surgery?

[Lactofreechummy]

My friend had gastric bypass surgery last year after really struggling with her weight since childhood.

She has done amazingly well and lost over 11 stones.

Yesterday, I had a notification pop up on facebook.

My friend has set up a page where people can donate money to help fund her skin removal surgery. The target is set at £6,500.

As someone who has also lost a considerable amount of weight (5.5 stones) and also has some extra skin etc, I find it ludicrous to even think of asking for other’s to fund it. I have told my friend this and she said that she couldn’t think of any other way to raise funds quickly enough.

For me, it's cherry coke. I can't buy I because if I buy a pack of 8, then I will drink 8 in one day.

So I don't buy it. I avoid that section of the supermarket. If I go out for a meal, I know I can order a glass. So I don't need it in the house.

It takes effort to do that, but if I didn't then I'd be obese and diabetic pretty quick.

The same with goats cheese - so I only have it if I'm out for dinner. There's probably some other stuff I just don't eat to avoid having loads of it.

Instead, I choose foods that won't destroy my gut. Because I know what will happen if I don't. However, I do love food and love cooking. I probably never stay under the recommended calorie intake. But I quite literally work my ass off by exercising a lot - more than the average person.

I make that choice because I want to enjoy my food. It's not a hard sum to do. If you want to eats more, then move more. It is possible.

They already do this with alcoholics.

You don't get a new liver unless you've been sober for X number of months or whatever. Some of those people being told they are not eligible are probably in greater clinical need than other people being given livers, but they don't get it because they caused the damaged.

And alcoholism is a disease with many many reasons exiting for drinking to excess. But still, we can't go giving livers to everyone who drank theirs to death. This is the same.

Put the effort in to stop before you end up in this situation. If you keep going and the NHS then has to give you a gastric band, don't go back asking for skin removal.

Some of those people being told they are not eligible are probably in greater clinical need than other people being given livers, but they don't get it because they caused the damaged.

What? Part of the decision-making is to do with the likely success of the transplant, not punishing the individual.

And how many times do we hear that someone got weight loss surgery or akin removal surgery and then put the weight back on?

That's not much of a success story either.

I think this has shown me that obese people will never accept responsibility for their actions.

Which just makes my disdain for them all the more prominent.

I think this has shown me that obese people will never accept responsibility for their actions.

It's not true for every single person, but on the whole I agree with you.

I'm of two minds on this one. My elderly mother (who has always been a normal healthy weight) has now lost about 30% of her body weight. She is literally skin and bone. She's poorly so couldn't have this type of operation but around her bottom, where she has lost so much weight it is really not very nice. She gets constant skin infections. She has folds of loose skin so where she is in reality the same size as my 9 year old she has to wear size 10 clothing to accommodate the skin.

Your friend arguably should have done something about her weight before it got so out of hand. But I don't think skin removal is necessarily just cosmetic.

I think this has shown me that obese people will never accept responsibility for their actions.

Which just makes my disdain for them all the more prominent

Would you make those comments about anorexic people, alcoholics or drug addicts?

I think I’d rather be obese than have disdain for people simply because of what they weigh.

*I think this has shown me that obese people will never accept responsibility for their actions.

Which just makes my disdain for them all the more prominent"

I think I would rather be obese than so nastily judgemental! I can lose weight, and I am - but can someone so judgemental become a nicer person?

Would you make those comments about anorexic people, alcoholics or drug addicts?
sorry but it's denying that for some of us it does take effort not to be overweight, not be become an alcoholic. At some point, we all have a point where we make a conscious decision not to eat that bag of crisps and start running, or not to drink that glass of wine to help us through the day. At one point or another, you make the choice, and some of us do not go for the easy option.

Refusing to acknowledge a problem and saying "it's not my fault" is a lazy option.

Let's say someone experienced an emotional trauma and developed anorexia. People would be full of sympathy and support for that person. If someone began binge eating as a way of coping, people would be full of condemnation and judgment.

but they don't get it because they caused the damage

No that’s not why they don’t get it. They don’t get it because without cessation of drinking the transplant will not be a success. It’s not a moral call, it’s a clinical one.

There’s no moral angle to clinical judgement. When I fell rock climbing it was own bloody fault but the NHS patched my minor injuries without a lecture on dangerous sports. When I twisted an ankle while fell running in the peaks likewise. Both were entirely my own fault. When some idiot criminal crashes a stolen car into a family the idiot gets put in an ambulance just like everyone else. You may not like it but medicine works on need, not moral judgement.

Should everyone take as much responsibility for their own health as possible? Yes, to the degree they can.

Should people who are obese be treated like pariahs? No they bloody shouldn’t. They should get treatment and help, according to clinical need not moral judgement. If their excess skin is causing impairment to the point t that meets the clinical threshold of need it should be dealt with. If it’s purely cosmetic then unfortunately it doesn’t.

It is clear that people with genetically high metabolism don’t get it. They don’t realise they can stay slim because they don’t feel the overpowering hunger and cravings. They are lucky they have never experienced the all consuming drive like a starving person would. They simply don’t feel the same way. So they benchmark anybody’s experience to theirs and can’t see the issue with just leaving food once you are full. They don’t get it an obese person NEVER feels full, they always want more, until they feel sick. It is hormonally driven, satiety and hunger are hormone based. They got nothing to do with what the person thinks is sensible to eat. These hormones affect primary areas of brain near the stem which have much greater power than a relatively small and superficial prefrontal cortex responsible for rational reasoning and willpower. It’s like trying to stop a train with your muscle power. The forces are incomparable.

Obese people are as rational and have as much willpower as the next person. Anybody who’s taken a hormonal contraceptive (or HRT) has experienced involuntary and unwelcome rapid weight gain. It’s not because they suddenly lost all willpower. People with PCOS know they pile on weight like no tomorrow even by looking at a plate of food. Almost all obese people/ people who struggle with weight have insulin resistance which means they have higher levels of the hormone. It is a scientific fact that the amount of insulin has a direct correlation with the amount of fat stores.

It is a crying shame obesity has been so little understood. Ongoing research is changing it, debunking this gluttony and sloth assumption. They are people who need specialised help. Their condition is involuntary. That’s not how they choose to be. As a person with PCOS, insulin resistance and Type 2 diabetes in the family, I know this first hand. I wish I could make it all disappear by using my willpower.

They don’t realise they can stay slim because they don’t feel the overpowering hunger and cravings.

see, that's complete and utter bollocks. Its a lazy solution to think that, the "it's not my fault".
Going a bit too far, someone like Liz Hurley freely admitted that she was reduced to tears being so hungry. That's pushing it, but she does look amazing.

It's like saying to a friend "you are so lucky you can eat what you want". No, they are not lucky. For a start, they don't pig out on insane amount of food, they stick to healthy portions. Then they spend hours exercising and generally keeping fit. As much as I like exercise, it's not always easy to get up at dawn to go running when it's pouring with rain, or go to the gym instead of watching tv.

Some circumstances will make it harder and easier to gain or lose weight, but it's a completely lie to pretend that some people are "blessed" with slim genes whilst others are cursed with "slow metabolism" - nonsensical concept if there is one.

It's a million time harder for an obese child to decide to get fit and change the lifestyle his parents have given him, but those who decide to do it manage. You can't pretend they are lucky, they are just the opposite of lazy. everyone can do it, it's a choice.

"Going a bit too far, someone like Liz Hurley freely admitted that she was reduced to tears being so hungry. That's pushing it, but she does look amazing."

So that makes actually CRYING with hunger okay?? Because she "looks amazing"??

So that makes actually CRYING with hunger okay?? Because she "looks amazing"??

I actually wrote it was pushing it too far, just pointing out that it takes effort and in her case, there has been some times when it was hard.

I find over-eating just as hard, being invited for diner by someone giving you ridiculous portions that you must finish to be polite, meaning feeling lethargic, heavy, spending half the night with stomach cramps, I find that hard too.

I am nowhere like Liz Hurley, didn't need to jump back in a bikini 1 month after giving birth, so I've never cried with hunger or known anyone who had. Keeping reasonable healthy portions is a choice though.

There’s also evidence that your gut microbiome can affect your weight quite significantly.

The fact is that we live in an obeseogenic environment. To tackle the issue cannot be done by just telling fat people they’re lazy greedy buggers. Society does that now and it’s obviously not working.
It’s going to need a multipronged approach. Early intervention, taxes on sugar and booze, more public health education input, better food from the start for kids, better mental health support, tackling the causes of mental health issues (poverty, abuse, shit life circumstances are just as responsible as any inbuilt predisposition.) it’s a complex problem and one that doesn’t have easy answers.

What doesn’t work is social scorn alone. That’s pretty clear. Countries that have a lower incidence of obesity than the UK tend to have better education, better worker protection, better infrastructure (all those Scandinavians on bikes have segregated bike lanes so they don’t have to share roads with lorries for example) and sometimes cultural mores that promote more self restraint (japan for example.)

It a complex problem. The solutions will be complex too, and a bit of compassion never goes amiss. No one has ever told me I’m a selfish cow for running or climbing despite both pastimes injuring me and requiring medical help.

Liz Hurley is on record as once saying that if she was ‘as fat as Kate winslet’ she’d kill herself, so I’m afraid I have absolutely zero sympathy for her starving herself to flog bikinis.

It's not social scorn to stop denying the obvious like some posters pretend to. At least be honest.

Hypermice no one is asking for your sympathy, I was just giving you the example of a slim woman who admitted that it's was not just due to a "fast metabolism" and "Lucky genes" and other bollocks we hear everywhere.

kate Middleton refuses to have any unhealthy snacks in her rooms wherever she goes.

I’m afraid there is too much denial amongst people who are obese. It probably can’t honestly be explained away as being due to this or that physical or emotional issue. To say so is ridiculous.

For most of the 20th Century, the number of obese people was actually very low. Most people were not even slightly overweight. Some of those people had lived through two World Wars! No excuses from them.

Everyone should take responsibility to the degree they can.

And yet how many percent are obese or overweight? That’s a lot of people struggling - we need to ask why. That doesn’t let anyone off the hook if they eat too much - it means we examine the reasons WHY so many people struggle to maintain a healthy weight. And so many people are. Is it knowledge? Restraint? What? The answers are going to have to require effort from both sides - from the individual and also from wider society.

Take a young healthy medical student for example - suddenly chucked into accommodation and working insane hours on the ward. Very little time to shop, shared kitchen, ends up eating loads of takeaway and putting weight on. So tired they just want to sleep when off shift. Or really anyone working long long hours for low pay - It’s not impossible to drag yourself round four supermarkets to get the best deals on bulk lentils but it’s easier to just pick up a pizza then be far too tired at the weekend to do anything outdoorsy. I’ve had periods in my life like that and it’s really easy to pack on some weight. We need to look at the whole picture of HOW people live and work and eat, rather than focus solely on telling them to eat less. Eating less IS part of it but it’s not the only part.

@Ikeepafork It is far from nonsensical. It is enshrined in the scientific research into hormones. Hunger and satiety are driven by hormones, not a person’s rational thinking. If you feel like crying being so hungry every day of your life, how long would you be able to keep it up for? Good luck with testing your willpower in those circumstances. I can tell you now, you will keep it up for a few weeks if you are particularly determined, then crumble and binge, then try diet shakes, pills or whatever designed to curb your appetite and induce feeling of satiety. You got not one chance in hell succeeding while you feel so hungry you could cry all the time. And this is the reality of obese people. If you never experienced it, be grateful for your lucky genes. It is definitely not because you are superior and have better willpower. People quick to spot the things on the surface and the blooming obvious - people overeat. But nobody cares to look into the true reason for this. Why are people driven to overeat? Why can’t they simply stop overeating? If it so easy after all, how come we have cases of morbid obesity at all? They should not have got to that point in the first place as it is so easy to stop and reverse this overeating tendency. Except it isn’t. And every obese person knows this.

a slim woman who admitted that it's was not just due to a "fast metabolism" and "Lucky genes" and other bollocks we hear everywhere.

There’s virtually no difference in corrected metabolic rate between individuals- that’s a misconception. When you put people in sealed thermal chambers and measure literally every calorie in and out you can see that.

What seems to make the difference is small things - one example: some people fidget a lot and that can be a couple of hundred calories a day. Multiply that by a year and it’s an impact. Tiny differences add up - maybe that gut biota squeezes out fifty more calories a day. Maybe those Ghrelin induced munchies leave you 30% more susceptible to eating. Small things, they add up.

Some people are insulin resistant. MOST people can reverse that with diet (albeit quite extreme restriction, see Newcastle Protocol.) some can’t - ironically they are often your thin type 2-ers (one in my family, actually underweight but still diabetic.)

Obesity is really complicated. And yes, the rates have shot up and few were overweight during rationing. That’s kind of my point - out environment has changed. The balance has tipped and so now all the external factors predispose to weight gain whereas internal factors like willpower probably haven’t changed.

We need to fix our environment AS WELL as our own actions. If there had been unlimited creme eggs and pizza during the wars people would have been fat then too - there’s not been any kind of mass abandonment of self control.

It’s got to be tackled from both sides - individual restraints AND environmental improvement.