To wish that going for a first trimester abortion was seen like have a tooth out?

[QueenArseClangers]

Without all the societal guilt and judgement heaped upon women?
I really wished it was viewed as a bog standard procedure, I’m sure women would feel a lot more in control of their reproductive health if it was.

"Sensitivity doesn’t mean pouring bile or judgement on people though)"

What does it mean then?

Not shameful but not to be compared to having a tooth out surely the removal of a rotten tooth is far removed from the ending of a potential human life!

By the way at the age of 74 I know of only one woman who has had an abortion (a friend of my daughter). One in three seems an unlikely statistic to me.

Yes as someone who was was nearly aborted.. S, ppose could say that

I fully defend woman's right to the choose and without unless special circumstances require it, the right without jumping through hoops.
There is no way I could cope with another a baby now we use contraception but if something went wrong I could not have the child. I had complications in last pregnancy and couldn't cope with the stress of that again either.

But if I had to terminate I would never think of that like pulling a tooth out. I can think of a more bizarre and flippant comparison to ending a life.

Re morning after pill I see what your saying but your implying it's highly likely conception has taken place. Unless your incredibly fertile is not that easy to fall pregnant. I imagine many times when it's used conception was never in the cards. It's just a fail safe.

For someone to say.. I had the ma pill once which may have prevented conception... To an actual live being on the way is what I think is called cognitive dissonance (sp)

thegreylady A lot of women don't talk about it though (not that they should have to keep it a secret). You might actually know more women but they've just never told you.
I know 5 women who have had an abortion, and I bet that's not all.

I think the idea that stigma and societal guilt is necessary to make women appreciate that it is an important decision is highly patronising.

If there are women routinely using abortions as a contraceptive, that is something to be discussed with their doctor. Having had one myself, it can be a horrible, painful experience which I would not want to repeat and I would be surprised if there were lots of women actually doing this.

By the way at the age of 74 I know of only one woman who has had an abortion (a friend of my daughter). One in three seems an unlikely statistic to me

Most people don’t tell anyone. The only person who knows about mine in real life is my DH. I won’t ever tell anyone, I don’t imagine.

The pill is not the same as an abortion. The hormones make the ovaries stop releasing the egg primarily. However you are correct that the hormones also affect the womb lining. If the womb lining is not good an egg might not be able to attach. The pill is simply making the female massively less fertile. It is not the same as removing an established embryo or foetus from the womb. Whilst women should never be stigmatised for having an abortion, removing the beginning of a human life is not the same as removing a rotten tooth.

What about the coil? Lots of people use that.

From BPAS: suggestions women are using abortion as contraception have no basis in reality

www.bpas.org/media/1439/10-abortion-myths-booklet.pdf

There's several other interesting facts in there too, I have friends who work in family planning etc, and they have said that any woman having more than 2 abortions in one year would raise red flags.

Sometime this can be due to not using other forms of contraception correctly, but in their experience most of the time it is due to an abusive relationship where either the male will not 'allow' contraception to be used or will be deliberately sabotaging it.

My personal view is that abortion needs to be more easily available.

As said by @kalinkafoxtrot45 Insisting that women attend counseling, and have to convince two doctors, is ridiculous. If you would trust a woman with a child, then presumably you can also trust her to make a decision on abortion?

And if you don't agree with abortion, don't have one, if you're a man who doesn't agree with it, make sure you use contraception, or novel idea don't have PIV sex.

The coil stops an egg implanting, therefore pregnancy can't happen. If the egg can't implant the embryo can't form. Stopping an egg attaching imo is not the same as an abortion. In some rare cases the embryo can develop alongside the coil which is also tragic and v distressing for the woman. Which is why I'd never use the coil.

And if women are using abortion as contraception (I suspect it's largely pro life propaganda) better that than them having babies they neither want nor will care for. And the discussion ther should be about why they aren't using effective contraception-not about abortion.

YANBU. Your body, your life. An abortion is no different to having a tooth pulled - an unwanted piece of your body. It's nobody else's business.

You are honestly comparing deliberately ending the life of your unborn child, to getting a tooth whipped out.

And this attitude is why it’s wrapped in shame and stigma.

I’ve had an abortion. I did not “deliberately end the life of my unborn child”, I had a cluster of cells removed from my body that I did not want there.

And let me tell you, the tooth that’s been giving me grief since last week has caused me far more mental and physical anguish than the abortion did.

The only thing I don’t like about people using abortion “as contraception” is the added cost to the NHS that could be avoided by actually using contraception.

No because I don’t see how it can be comparable to dental work in the slightest. Once you have been pregnant, that stays with you forever whether you like it or not. I’m not saying for one second that most women regret the decision in some way but the procedure and experience itself isn’t easy, some women do grieve and there’s also the fact you have to always mention that termination during any future pregnancies so it’s not something that can be done and just forgotten about forever. It’s a life altering decision and can be quite painful and traumatic for some.

The problem is the embryo or foetus is the beginning of someone else's body.

I agree with you OP as long as we recognise that some women do feel that shame and other sadness. And that abortion represents a problem of some kind even if minor or unavoidable (I don't want people to ignore 'why are women having to deal with unwanted pregnancies' or 'why are women aborting otherwise wanted babies' and so on, but each individual woman's decision is her own business.)

Not every woman is going to be over it once the physical pain stops, and I don't think that's necessarily a problem. But no-one needs to try to cause her emotional pain like a few people on this thread are. (Why exactly should supposed irresponsible baby killers be encouraged or forced to become mothers anyway? What kind of an argument is that? If you cared about babies why would you ever suggest that?)

I think tooth extraction is a decent comparison. Generally goes fine apart from the pain, some risk of infection and excessive blood loss. Some people see it very calmly and aren't afraid, some people are very anxious all the way to petrified. Some people need to go under to get it done. No-one likes it, but it's almost always better than the alternative. Some people get trauma from it, but not most. No-one would do it unnecessarily, for fun, from laziness. People judge people who've had it done especially "too many" times. People assume you could have easily avoided having to have it done. It's way more commonly done than people assume. It's treated like it's not a normal medical matter when it clearly is.

The big difference is actually that most women who have abortions will be able to go on to have (more) children if they want to but you can't regrow a tooth. So I'm not really buying that abortion is the more serious procedure, certainly not physically. I'm fine with any particular woman feeling however she wants about abortion but we can't have laws based on that. Just like anyone's personal feelings about tooth extraction shouldn't inform the law.

Headstone, remove it then.

I saw this guy on facebook the other day posting this shit about "little prisoners in the womb". Liberate the "little prisoner" then. Get it away from its wicked murderous mother and it will surely thrive. Oh it won't? Oh it's actually not a separate life then is it.

Women aren't life support machines

Can anyone provide evidence of women "using abortion as contraception

Of course they can't. Contraception is something that stops you getting pregnant, therefore abortion can never be used as contraception.

I'm not against abortion, under certain circumstances I might consider having one. I just don't see why I need to pretend it's not the start of a human when it is.

But it is a life changing decision, because your making the descion to end a life
That is one persons opinion, not mine and it shouldn't be forced on other women. If a woman wants it to be a life changing event them so be it but it is NOT a life changing event for other women. You take a pill (up to 2 1/2 months iirc) and its sorted, no life has been killed, no one has been harmed (in fact a great deal of harm has been prevented), and its often easier than having a tooth pulled.

My body my choice, dont need counselling, dont need to persuade 2 old men (doctors) and dont need other woman making me feel bad by trying to force their beliefs upon me.

So you recognise that many womens lives are destroyed with quilt and regret from having an abortion but think its should be made much easier to do?
So even more women can make the wrong decesion for them without having to properly think about it and spend the rest of their lives living with regret?

I think a woman who has a first trimester abortion deserves compassion. Much more than someone who has had a tooth out. Even for women who have formed no attachment to the pregnancy, they haveclikely gone through shock, worry, felt time pressured etc. Educate people to be non judgemental and kid. Do not reduce abortion to nothing.

Kind, not kid