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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wish that going for a first trimester abortion was seen like have a tooth out?

477 replies

QueenArseClangers · 27/03/2018 11:26

Without all the societal guilt and judgement heaped upon women?
I really wished it was viewed as a bog standard procedure, I’m sure women would feel a lot more in control of their reproductive health if it was.

OP posts:
Original poster
QueenArseClangers · 28/03/2018 20:00

Fucking hell Vivienne, my (rather clumsily worded OP) has been kindly explained by other posters and myself many times in this thread.
Like this:

CherryChasingDotMuncher

”I don't think the OP meant we should compare the two procedures a more that we should have a similar opinion to abortions as we do to tooth extractions - the opinion being, "not my body, but hope it goes well"

Because, as stated, IT IS NON OF ANYONE ELSES BUSINESS IF A WOMAN DECIDES TO TERMINATE.

OP posts:
Mydoghatesthebath · 28/03/2018 20:00

Yes it’s an ethical problem for forced birthers. For those who seek to control other women’s bodies abs choices.

It’s in no way an ethical dilemma for me. Dc6 was an accident and I had an amnio after a suspect scsn because I don’t believe in bringing a disabled child into the world for my older siblings to feel obliged to look after. I would have aborted in a heart beat if my dd had been very disabled. That’s my ethics.

In no way an I guilty about this, she was fine by the way, and in no way do I seek to tell another woman what her ethical choice should be.

I find it quite bizarre that other people seek to foist their opinions on others.

Post abortions women feel relief, sorrow, regret, tranquil, and anywhere in between including indifferent.

So what.

Lizzie48 · 28/03/2018 20:04

No, what I'm getting at is it's an ethical dilemma about when life begins. Are you saying that the issue shouldn't be discussed on Ethics courses at university? The pro-choice position is always presented very strongly. Why does that bother you? You're pro-choice, that is your ethical position. You're saying that life begins at birth.

I don't get why you don't like it being seen that way.

DistanceCall · 28/03/2018 20:06

My mother used to be a nurse. The only example she ever came across of women who used abortion as regular contraception was Romanian women - apparently, in Ceaucescu's Romania there were no condoms but abortion was free.

So that's the only instance. Not having regular access to contraception. Lifting the taboo on abortion won't make women want to abort more - no woman in her right mind will have an abortion if she can avoid it.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 28/03/2018 20:07

When life begins is different for everyone, but again I say - so what? To me it has nothing to do with abortions. Because it's not an issue of "she's ending a life, because life begins at heart beat", it's "her needs, health and happiness trump that of any foetus". Even if that foetus, according to a bunch of randoms, begins at X weeks.

BertrandRussell · 28/03/2018 20:14

“No, what I'm getting at is it's an ethical dilemma about when life begins”

Yes, and when the people we as a society have delegated to decide such things debate on our society’s stand on abortion, ethical considerations should be part of that debate.

They should not be part of a medical procedure that we as a society have agreed is perfectly legal.

surferjet · 28/03/2018 20:15

I think the reason why you have an abortion is crucial to how you cope mentally afterwards.
If you abort a severely disabled baby that you really don’t want, you may well feel relieved, but if you abort a perfectly healthy baby that you wanted but felt you couldn’t keep because of finances, perhaps an unsupportive partner, etc, then it may effect you adversely.
So abortion can never be seen as trivial as ‘having a tooth out’ as it affects every woman differently.

dontbesillyhenry · 28/03/2018 20:22

It makes me sad people would think of aborting a child in the same vein as having a tooth out. Which also makes me a bit hypocritical as I'm pro life and had a termination 😢

Lizzie48 · 28/03/2018 20:27

Ok, that's your ethical position, it's an entirely valid one. It's an ethical debate that we're having here. For me, it would be when a baby can survive outside the womb, and I personally think 24 weeks is about right.

I wouldn't have an abortion myself but I would support any other woman (including, heaven forbid it ever happens), my DDs, if that was their decision. I would accompany them to the clinic and support them, if they wanted me there.

I agree absolutely with @BertrandRussell and @surferjet both very valid points.

bananafish81 · 28/03/2018 20:35

Selective sex abortion is not permitted in the UK AFAIK.

Abortion for any reason is permitted before 24 weeks. Why would sex selection be any different?. How would the provider know even if it was - you don't have to disclose a reason.

You can find out the sex at 10 weeks in any case.

Snowmagedon · 28/03/2018 20:57

I'd totally support my dd too if she had to have one absolutely but I would privately feel a little dismayed if she was as casual about the whole thing as having a tooth out.

Oh mum, having feotus/tooth out on Thursday can you give me a lift...

With as much thought given to it as having a tooth out.

Mydoghatesthebath · 28/03/2018 21:03

Lizzie

No I don’t necessarily think or really care that life begins st birth. I think if universities want to debate this that’s fine. Kids do that.

However here in the real world with real women’s lives let’s let women decide if they want to continue with a pregnancy or they don’t.

I don’t get the angst from proooe like you or the moral dilemma for other women.

You make your choice and other women make theirs.

Mydoghatesthebath · 28/03/2018 21:04

snow

And who really does that in RL?

AllNamesTakenhell · 28/03/2018 21:14

It's a medical procedure, i view it as just that. Some people will want it or feel relief by it, while for others they may not want it or feel sadness. Or many degrees inbetween.

I dont hear people speaking about having an abortion much but i have had a miscarriage which is something a bit taboo to talk over. Until i was honest and talked about mine, i believed only two women i knew have had one. Now i know that 7 have.

If you want or need an abortion then you should be able to have access to one without stress and jumping through many hoops. The idea of going backwards in thinking to being forced into the same rules as, for example Ireland, is worrying to me. If you don't want one then don't have one.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 28/03/2018 21:22

Perhaps some anti-choice posters could explain why its ok to use chemicals the night before conception (to prevent implantation) but the use of chemicals the night after conception its abhorrent? How many cells have grown in that time scale? Some actual information (without the hand wringing) about why its so bad would be useful!

MarthasGinYard · 28/03/2018 21:23

Yabu

Dreadful comparison

MakeMineAStrongOne · 28/03/2018 21:31

There are some people for whom, like many posters here, a first trimester abortion is like having a tooth out. Then there are others, like me, for whom it was the source of immense guilt, sadness and arguably trauma. Just because many people have no issue with it and come away unscathed, doesn't mean we all do. Of course I agree that there shouldn't be a taboo around it and I don't agree with the idea that if it were treated more openly in society women would suddenly start using it as a contraceptive method. But to be frank, even more than 15 years later, the pain I felt at doing something that went so profoundly against my instinct still resurfaces when I read something like this. (And that's not to say I regret having the abortion- I never have.) Comparing it to a dental appointment is glib and a bit silly, in my opinion.

Mydoghatesthebath · 28/03/2018 21:32

God I hope that the women of Ireland get the choice they deserve.

There was a heartbreaking thread on here a few years back a mumsbetter forced to carry a baby who she knew would die just after birth. Truly shocking that the Irish government decreed that she had to carry a baby that all the medical profession knew was a baby who had such devestaing disabilities.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 28/03/2018 21:38

How many times does it have to be pointed out that OP was NOT comparing the two procedures, but comparing attitudes of others towards the two procedures?

CreamEggEnthusiast · 28/03/2018 21:39

Gilead. Thanks for being so patronising hun. I realise that getting pregnant 'by accident' is not the only reason why a woman would have an abortion, but it's the reason in many cases. So no, it shouldn't be treated like a dental procedure. Women who chose to terminate a pregnancy due to other reasons, e.g abuse, medical complications, do not take it lightly.

applesandpears56 · 28/03/2018 21:42

But it is someone else’s business - it’s the baby’s fathers business too

Life being once it’s created not when it’s born imo. A tooth isn’t life.

BertrandRussell · 28/03/2018 21:43

MakeMine- of course your feelings are legitimate and I am sorry that they are being forced to the surface again by this thread. I am feeing incredibly frustrated by my inability to express what I mean when I say I agree with the OP. But honestly, it is nothing about minimizing the feelings of women like you, and everything about not imposing external morality on women who have need of a medical procedure.

applesandpears56 · 28/03/2018 21:43

Begins sorry auto correct

BertrandRussell · 28/03/2018 21:44

“But it is someone else’s business - it’s the baby’s fathers business too”

It absolutely isn’t. It just can’t be.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 28/03/2018 21:46

But it is someone else’s business - it’s the baby’s fathers business too

No it isn't. Not even close. Unless you want men to start having autonomy over women's bodies?