to think that people should shut up about their bank charges? You incurred the charges, so pay up.

[AitchTwoOh]

honestly, i've got a friend who just got £5500 back and he's off on holiday with the proceeds.

he's absolutely USELESS with money and knowingly incurred all teh charges, so why exactly does he deserve to get the money back? it's not a bloody savings account he's been paying into...

there are several reasons for not having a direct debit - one is because we don't necessarily get paid at the same time every month and also, depending on how much freelance stuff dh has done, the amount that comes in can be different so I need to decide exactly when the bill is paid.

Also, once upon a time, I think it was the electricity people took the most astonishing amount out of our account for a direct debit - like 3 times our normal bill and it took AGES to get it sorted out so now I watch what comes in and pay it accordingly (and they are much quicker to sort out your complaint when they know you haven't paid!).

Sponge bob - that is the crux to this whole discussion - those who voluntarily get themselves in an unholy mess and those who get there from misfortune and perhaps, lack of understanding.

I agree, Rantum, I'll never, ever understand the pervasive 'I'm all right, Jack, so f*ck you' mentality that's so prevalent in society - and shows up on this board - so often.

I've never been charged at a cash machine either.

I'm not smug, I'm pragmatic. I just don't understand how people can end up with hundreds or thousands of pounds of charges and then claim that it is not their fault. Something does not add up.

I beg to differ on teh rich vs poor angle. It was a major part of the OFT enquiry as to whether poorer people who tended to have little access to authorised overdrafts and whose ability to cope with unforseen events (such as a failed MOT, a broken boiler etc) were subsidising free banking for less disadvantaged parts of society.

The OFT are primarily interested in whether anti-competitive behaviour was being displayed by the banks and whether cross subsidy was an issue.

The conclusion was that the banks were applying unfair (and contracturally unsupportable) penalities and that the remedy was for customers to seek remedies under the law of contract on the basis that the penalty applied did not represent a fair assessment of damages under the contract.

I am in the fortunate position of never having to pay bank charges but I am appalled at the suggestion that someone should continue to pay higher penalties for default on their overdraft or late payments of credit cards, just so that I can continue to have free banking. If the banks wish to charge for me to have accounts with them and that charge is a fair reflection of what it costs them to operate them, then of course I should bear that cost, not some poor sod who is strapped for that months rent payment because she wanted to put food on the table or buy a £5 toy from Woolies for her child's birthday present.

In fact I am rather shocked at the attitudes and selfishness of people who advocate that the poor in our society should bear the costs of the better off simply because they are not financially astute/not in a good financial position. I hope none of you ever fall on bad times and have to walk a yard in these people's shoes, nevermind a mile!

NOT ONLY GENUINELY POOR PEOPLE PAY LOADS OF BANK CHARGES YOU CHIPPY LOT

enid see my post earlier fro why not to pay by direct debit with SWEB!

As it happens we largely do now we don't live immediately near a bank but we don't trust them one bit, been bitten too many times.

I pay all my bills monthly on DD as then you don't get them all turning up at once every quarter

as did my mum (and she didn't have a pot to piss in)

you need to be ORGANISED

I've seen in happen, speedy, often enough, to people for whom it really isn't their fault.

They're self-employed and don't get paid, for example.

Then, the charges start to mount up VERY quickly and they find themselves BIG STYLE in the hole.

Or tax credit/benefits fracas and they don't pay.

Or a sudden drop in pay.

Maternity leave.

Any number of examples.

gobbledegook - i think someone else said this but most people don't choose to keep getting charges. it is a case of being charged a fee one month which means you go over your overdraft again, which, in turn means you get more charges the following month, which means you go overdrawn again etc etc .

Banks don't want you to stay in credit - they make more money when youre overdrawn. As long as they know ou have some equity (ie a house) they'll give you the world - but have no hesitation in pulling the rug from under you if you take advantage of all the offers they push on you and spend vastly in excess of your ability to repay.

Yes of course - in an ideal world - people shouldn't overdraw if they can't afford the charges - but how many people know exactly what those charges are? And who can control exactly what date their salary gets paid in/their direct debits come out/when the mortgage interest rate goes up? So much personal financial management really is beyond the control of the people who pay for it these days - I read somewhere the other day that people with an average tracker mortgage are now paying more than £120 a month more than they were 12 months ago - what if your expenditure is carefully calculated to the last penny so you don't get into debt, and then the interest rates ris, or gas prices go up, or electricity or petrol or anything else? How can you control that? Can you default on your mortage/stop paying your bills? Of course not. And debt spirals from an initial £6.00 over the limit to hundreds of pounds before you can do a damn thing about it, as we've seen from other posts.

Where I can I try and pay my bills by cheque rather than direct debit, so I can control them, but - you know what? - my phone company charges me £5 for the privilege! But when I did pay by DD, they cocked it up so many times I spent hours on the phone sorting it out!

They're all shysters. sorry.

Expat - that is not where I am coming from. There are so many people who are unfairly charged through misfortune etc and those are the people I hope this ruling will help the most. We do need to improve financial education in this country - the amount of debt that we carry as a nation is unsustainable and it can not carry on.

We are I think about to see some pain on the on financial front...

and you're right enid, I probably could if I wanted to!

Yes, then you have direct debit cockups, where the service provider takes the wrong amount - generally more than they're due - and they don't want to give it back right away.

Meanwhile, you've gone over and incur charges.

Yes - self-employment is another thing too. The main reason I gave up a business I loved to get a PAYE job was because I couldn't control my income - some months it was good, some it was bad. The mortgage man didn't care though.

Life is fine if you're the stereotype, but not if you deviate slightly from the salaried norm.

speedy - did you read my post at 13.58? that is how someone can end up with thousands of pounds worth of charges! first month £30, next month £60 etc. if you only earn as much as you need to pay out then when you get a charge it can tip you over the edge!

but I would get charged when the account went overdrawn for paying bills that way - I need to pay them when the funds are there.

I'm not trying to make this a rich poor debate because I doubt we'd be classed as poor at all!

But what I'm trying to make clear is that not everyone has a standard pay check going into their account on the 25th of every month. Some people get paid weekly, some get huge chunks and then nothing for ages. Direct debits are just impractical for some people that's all.

Expat - you are right there. banks need to et quicker at putting their wrongs right.

Speedy I suspect yu're right about many cases but it can happen

For example you're meant to get paid and you don't, bt you don't know that

All of your direct debits are set up to go out just after pay day, as ours are.

They don't

That's up to £40 a direct debit unpaid

Plus charges for things such as credit cards, mortgage /rent and insurabce payments as well

Say you have 10 DD's that don't go, you get charges of £400

you then get paid the next day (was just a computer blip) but the £400 isn't coming back now.

They take the £400 and you simply don't have enough money to pay the basic bills (I bet only a small percentage have that much money left after bills in RL)

So next month you pay most of your bills but can't afford to pay a few, for which you get more charges and / or penalities
Can you see how it adds up?

cheque cheque arrghh

All the educating in financial management won't be any use when life just hits though. We're horribly in debt- the money has gone on paying for interventions for ds1. A years worth of speech therapy at 35 quid an hour because the NHS offerings were wholly inadequate. £150 quid a month for over a year on a Saturday ABA programme because inclusion was an absolute joke and we were watching any chance he had diminish. $3600 on a 6 month behavioural intervention programme becuase we wanted a list ditch attempt at really learning how to try and help him talk. £100 here and there for various workshops that have made a total difference to our life. 5 years of gluten free food that can't be got on prescription. Of course we can;t afford any of this, but I would do it all again, I don't think I've ever regretted spending the money on him.

We've occasionally incurred charges, but most of the money has been made on overdraft set up fees, credit card charges, loans.

Some people don;t live perfect lives. Eventually we'll pay it all back although it will take years. I wish life was as simple as just spending what we have. Extra charges when things like cheques being paid in have taken longer than they should are just irritating and represent x hours therapy to us.

Agreeing with the OP has nothing to do with "I'm all right Jack" mentality either.

I hate debt, so does DH and so do our parents. So we avoid it like the plague. The only debt DH and I have is our mortgage and we are overpaying that by several hundred a month in order to get rid of it in the next three years.

My parents were Jamaican immigrants and lived in one room for 4 years (with 2 children). They both earnt miminum wage, had to send money back to Jamica for 2 older siblings, plus they were saving for a deposit for a house plus they had rent, food, bills to pay. I learnt how to be frugal from them and I have never spent more than I have. The overdraft world is completely alien to me.

Peachy can you not set up an OD facility - an authorised one would be lot cheaper if this is something that happens regularly...

I suppose the other problem is that in the old days you could ring up your bank manager and explan the situation and he would know you - that you were a regular hard working type - and sort it for you but now you are a number and nobody really cares

Sorry Xposting, Cathbert and Peacy, I see the points you are making about how charges can add up. I would have thought that in those instances, banks would refund the money as it was an aberration of the system?