To think that “butch “lesbian identity is being erased.

[Queenofwands]

I was chatting to a taxi driver who said she was a lesbian. As we were talking she said that she was getting pressure from her family to undergo a sex change. She said she was confused because she had previously thought of herself as a tomboy. We talked and it became clear that she felt there was no place for her in society . She looked in her early twenties and to my eyes not even particularly boyish. It made me think has being a gay woman who is not especially girly become conflated with being transgender?

orangepie I think you are pretty behind the times on what constitutes "trans" and what doesn't. I think you are in for a shock.

I am not, gender nonconforming is not trans, and many people that identify as no gender or gender-fluid would be unhappy with you calling them trans.

Are you saying butch = short hair? Ellen is hardly butch.

Because just as you know your gender they know theirs. To try force them to be something they know they are not is wrong.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3202327-How-do-I-fill-in-this-form-about-gender-identity

Like this poster here who doesnt get to not identify with gender??.

KD Laing and Ellen are honorary chaps.

media.gettyimages.com/photos/portrait-of-musician-kd-lang-chicago-illinois-august-6-1989-picture-id481632557?s=612x612

Lang

orangepie, I agree, though Stonewall disagrees as they define trans as: "an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth. Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) Transgender, Transsexual, Gender-queer (GQ), Gender-fluid, Non-binary, Gender-variant, Crossdresser, Genderless, Agender, Nongender, Third gender, Two-spirit, Bi-gender, Trans man, Trans woman,Trans masculine, Trans feminine and Neutrois."

Tavistock does recognize that others disagree with that idea but Stonewall is the major voice in schools and business and stuff and they've put a lot of people together who don't want to be.

Also, gender nonconforming just means not confirming to sex roles. Anyone of any identity can be gender nonconforming. Genderfluid is a different thing.

media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/s6V59FQpmnHMu2vNCZngq8a9QtE/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/10/29/885/n/1922398/a8f7cd4ace8e70e0_FFN_OSSA_Ellen_Portia_EXC_102816_52217050/i/Ellen-DeGeneres-Portia-de-Rossi-Hold-Hands-LA-Oct-2016.jpg

They should complain to HR their should be an option for other, ATM they should select prefer not to say if they do not identify as male or female till HR can update the form.

The OP has a point. Can’t think of any current butch women.

How does "other" help them audit sex as a protected characteristic? Do you not think that inequalities between the sexes matter?

They have replaced sex with gender, not added a gender id monotoring question.

RoseWhiteTips
Can you think of any leather mustached gay men? Sub cultures change and evolve over time.

The OP has a point. Can’t think of any current butch women.

I've got a live one, I married her. However, if you're looking I can give you the login to my old gaydar girls profile, the place is crawling with them, fortunately.

Or did you want one from the telly?

How does "other" help them audit sex as a protected characteristic?

Do you have any idea of the proportion of people who tick the 'other' box?

Do you have any idea of the proportion of people who tick the 'other' box?

I think you are spectacularly missing the point. Which is that sex monitoring is being replaced by gender monitoring. Instead of having both (plus option of not believing in gender, like you havs in the religion monitoring section).

Sex IS STILL a legally protected characteristic!!

Sex.

SpringHen
The doctor at her birth saw a vagina and assigned her to the female gender.

If they still feel their gender is female she selects - live and work in the same gender role to that assigned to me at birth

If they now feel their gender is male he selects - I live and work in the opposite gender role to that assigned at my birth

If they now feel they have no gender or gender nonconforming they select - prefer not to say and go to HR about the missing other option.

It's not hard, I don't see the issue other than they forgot the "Other" option from the start.

Vaginas are sex organs.
We have no gender organs.

Sex is still a legally protected characteristic.

SpringHen
Yes the doctor looked at a sex organ and used that to assign a gender onto the child. If she still agrees with that assignment she would select option one.

Orangepie you are making me dizzy with the number of posts where you use "sex" and "gender" interchangably.

Gender is a social construct based on societal steriotypes.

Sex is your physical biology.

Yes the doctor looked at a sex organ and used that to assign a gender onto the child

No. My birth cert says "Sex:female". It says nothing about gender nor do any of my childhood medical files.

SpringHen
Gender is what you feel and present to the world, sex is body parts and unimportant to how you feel and present.

Gender is the consciousness and what is important, sex is flesh.

No gender was assigned to me at birth
Gender steriotypes have been imposed on my in life
But no doctor assigned my gender as "stetiotypical female".
I was diagnosed as biological female. That is my sex.

Gender is what you feel and present to the world
Nah thats just my feelings and my personality

sex is body parts and unimportant to how you feel and present.
Sex is pretty fucking important and this is why it was made a protected characteristic

Gender is the consciousness and what is important
Sure, If you dont believe in sex discrimination

sex is flesh.
It means so so much more than that

Go dig out your birth certificate orange and find where it states your assigned gender at birth!

(Spoiler: it wont. It only states your sex)