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Original poster

To think that “butch “lesbian identity is being erased.

277 replies

Queenofwands · 23/03/2018 05:00

I was chatting to a taxi driver who said she was a lesbian. As we were talking she said that she was getting pressure from her family to undergo a sex change. She said she was confused because she had previously thought of herself as a tomboy. We talked and it became clear that she felt there was no place for her in society . She looked in her early twenties and to my eyes not even particularly boyish. It made me think has being a gay woman who is not especially girly become conflated with being transgender?

OP posts:
MamabigTum · 23/03/2018 07:18

This reply has been deleted

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CalmBeforeTheWave · 23/03/2018 07:20

Uber has a lot to answer for!

We need more butch lesbian taxi drivers. And we need them now.

Snowsnake · 23/03/2018 07:20

Putting my two penny worth in...I feel a lot of the younger population are confused about identity,a friend was in a gay relationship,and ended up getting a referral to a gender changing clinic..I don't get how you jump from A to B in less than a year..the school counselling service and school were heavily involved writing to the parents....made me think what the hell is being peddled in schools these days

Rudgie47 · 23/03/2018 07:21

A butch lesbian is someone like Lea Delaria not Ellen!

Snowsnake · 23/03/2018 07:23

School nurse ,not school

StrangeLookingParasite · 23/03/2018 07:23

your made up transphobic story is transparent.

I don't think it's made up. I also think there is pressure on young non-gender-stereotype conforming gay women to "admit" they're trans.

Joanna57 · 23/03/2018 07:25

I have a very good gay friend. He is rather feminine. Likes his long well groomed and bleached blonde hair, manicured nails and his touch of mascara for a night out. He will tell you that he is ALL male and rather attached to his penis, in a good way.

He is not a transvestite, nor does he want to be a female, in any way, shape or form and, if you even dare to suggest it, he will batter you will intelligent words.

He is finding all this 'trans' malarkey, amongst the young, (he is 42) rather amusing and a reason for a good piss take in his local pub.

NewNameADayKeepsSpiesAway · 23/03/2018 07:28
  1. this thread is weird
  2. is Ellen butch?! I’ve always thought she’s both feminine and beautiful- and I’m straight!
Tomselleckhaskindeyes · 23/03/2018 07:30

I actually think the two issues are getting confused and instead of helping people accept themselves as they are there is a big leap to being transgender. I think a lot more work and study needs to be done on this.

orangepie · 23/03/2018 07:30

I don't think it's made up. I also think there is pressure on young non-gender-stereotype conforming gay women to "admit" they're trans.

No there is not and I know more gender fluid people than trans people if anything gender fluidity is making it harder for trans people as most kids now just go gender is a social construct you are not male or female just you. They reject gender if they want to wear a dress on day fine pants the next who cares, they use pronouns like zie/they.

Joanna57 · 23/03/2018 07:31

Well my friend thinks it's a covert way of exterminating all the 'gays'.

Fancy a man, but you are a man? = You must really be a 'woman'.

Fancy a woman, but you are a woman? = You must really be a 'man'.

Scary times.......

supersop60 · 23/03/2018 07:31

The driver's family sound weird. Just because you like girls doesn't mean you want to be a boy.

Bluntness100 · 23/03/2018 07:33

Of course this is made up. Who the fuck would pressurise somone to have their breasts removed and genilalia mutilated because they are simply gay. You'd have to be really fucked up and dim to not know the difference between gender and sexuality.

It's just another me too trans thread. She's over thought it, thought ooh wonder if this happens, then posted it like it's real.

In other words, saw a bandwagon and jumped on it.

Stillscreaming · 23/03/2018 07:35

I see loads of people on Mumsnet constantly telling me that lesbian identity is being erased by trans people, I've spent ages trying to gently point out that trans people aren't eating my community, that Twitter isn't real life and I'd much rather you didn't use my community to bash another minority but no one want to hear that.,

Today, all you're getting is, cool story bro, I hope telling it has made you feel better.

Joinourclub · 23/03/2018 07:36

That's quite an in depth conversation to be having with your taxi driver.

PerfectlyDone · 23/03/2018 07:42

I have no idea whether this is affecting butch lesbians more or less than non-butch lesbians, but my understanding is that there IS a concern among feminist lesbians that their sexuality is being marginalised.
Many of the young teenaged girls who in recent years have identified as trans turn out to be lesbians, but in their peer group (heavily social media driven) coming out as trans is more socially acceptable, or even 'cool', than coming out as homosexual.

I do think there is food for thought there.
Why is it usually mature or middle-aged MTF trans people who shout the loudest about their 'rights' and that they ARE women, while the voices of young girls/women are not heard in this debate?

orangepie · 23/03/2018 07:51

I find the younger ones the worst, I have no issue dating a trans woman as they are a woman but the youth coming in now are all gender is fluid I can be masculine one day and feminine the next.

velourvoyageur · 23/03/2018 07:53

I see loads of people on Mumsnet constantly telling me that lesbian identity is being erased by trans people, I've spent ages trying to gently point out that trans people aren't eating my community, that Twitter isn't real life and I'd much rather you didn't use my community to bash another minority but no one want to hear that

It's my community too and MN has it spot on.
Lesbian identity is being erased by those who think the definition of 'woman' should be predicated on gender identity not sex - if transactivists fall into that category then yeah the criticism applies to them.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/03/2018 07:55

I do think there's a worry.

I work with young people aged about 18-22, and it does regularly come up that young women feel a pressure to be a certain way. I know women who've come out as trans then come out as lesbian, and got a lot of backlash for it. I also know an awful lot of young women who've been pressured to identify as trans, because being a lesbian isn't 'cool'. This is a real thing - I can't count how many people tell me that 'queer' is the only acceptable term and being a lesbian is not something they would ever be.

My DP is a not hyper-masculine woman, but she's certainly a bit butch-looking, and she is regularly mistaken for a man (including, memorably, when she was actually breastfeeding DD). She finds it quite upsetting, and doesn't like the term 'butch'. But even she really notices that a younger generation are very, very keen to believe that anyone who doesn't conform to a narrow presentation of gender, must be trans. I've had people tell me she must be trans and in denial 'because she buys men's clothes' (sometimes. Mostly not, and mostly because she's got broad shoulders and they fit her better) or 'because of the way she acts' (I have no idea what this one means).

maddiemookins16mum · 23/03/2018 07:56

My taxi driver just talks to me about how busy the roads are and where I want to go.

velourvoyageur · 23/03/2018 07:56

Oh and this is happening in real life - I don't know if you have many dealings in HE but most uni LGBT socs very accurately reflect what's happening on Tinder.

velourvoyageur · 23/03/2018 07:57

oops, Twitter!

murmuration · 23/03/2018 08:02

So, is it about the butchness or the lesbianness? E.g., would a butch heterosexual woman fell pressure to transition and become a gay man??

RosiePosiePuddle · 23/03/2018 08:03

Place-marking as it's an interesting discussion and nothing to add - other than butch lesbians are apparently a 90's fashion. Who knew?

SandyShoresMissingShoes · 23/03/2018 08:03

Being gay is one thing. Wanting to change your sex is another. I think quite honestly some of this is a bandwagon where younger people feel pressurised to 'do' something just because they feel different in some way and see gender change as a means of ending their confusion.

Trans and gay people are still very much a minority. Yet at the moment we are made to feel they make up half the population.

I knew someone years ago who was a counsellor working a lot with gay men and transexuals. He said that some younger people are very confused about who they are and feel pressurised to 'be' something and choose the sexuality bandwagon . I'm not saying that this applies to all gay and trans people at all- so don't shoot me down- but he worked with clients who later regretted their choices when surgery was involved.