To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

Just when heterosexual men thought they were safe....

twitter.com/Anyechka/status/977297215331946496

What's that? Oh, it's straight men laughing in the face of whoever said they were obliged to have sex with transwomen.

@Maggie thank you - I think we agree on a lot.

It's years too late. The GRA has been in force since 2004 so any person identifying as a different gender, over 18, with a diagnosis of GD and living as their preferred gender for 2 years and intending to do so for the rest of their lives can apply for a GRC and be issued with a new birth certificate, passport etc. No hormones or surgery required.

This is true. In 2004 if I had been aware of it as an issue (I wasn’t), I would have been on the side of transsexuals being treated with respect and in favour of a GRC.

Actually I still am. It really is self ID I am against. I see no issue with the current system. As far as I’m concerned, gender disphoria should be diagnosed by medics before a birth certificate and legal recognition of a change of sex is allowed. I’m unsympathetic to arguments that it’s demeaning to medicalise it, because that means I’d have to agree it’s a social problem not a mental health issue. I think everyone suffering with any form of health issue deserves compassion, respect and understanding.

But it is a health issue. And it’s being made a social issue - schools, sports teams, clubs like Girl Guiding, politics, awards, everything is changing to gender not sex, despite the fact that’s not law.

And that’s not OK because it’s changing without consulting the people whose rights it is affecting.

Women are oppressed by biological reality. Trans people are oppressed in different ways. Women require 2 doctors to agree we can abort a foetus. Trans people require 2 opinions they are suffering from gender dysphoria.

I see nothing that needs changing in that.

I see that awareness of stealth changes to the law by lobbyists needs raising in the general public.

That’s why I keep promoting the petition because I don’t know how else to go about it.

I am fed up of being called a bigot and a transphobe for saying sex matters, though.

Eloquently and articulately put @NoSquirrels

@gingergenius
But my views are transphobic. I’ve been educated on that. It’s transphobic to suggest it a mental health issue. Trans is not gender disphoria any more.

That is where the public are behind in their perception. They are operating on “tolerance for people suffering from a condition” not “political lobbying for changes to the definition of biology”.

How do we get that argument heard without bias?

Agree with nosquirrels and with a lot of what maggie is saying too

There has been literally nothing new presented in the last 2 years that I can think of.

Many organisations are now acting as though self-ID is law. So what's being going on lately is exactly what will happen if the law-makers don't listen to women's concerns.

Self-id and hanging out in women's spaces will make him very conspicuous and easier to identify. … There will not be all this nonsense about men identifying as women to become girl guide leaders or whatever.

But if you identify a TIM, you won't be able to do anything about it. And the "nonsense" is now real.

It's not solely about men self-IDing to get access to women and girls for nefarious purposes, though some may attempt to do that. The point for most TIMs is the validation they get from being in women's spaces, as "proof" that they're "real women". What the actual girls and women in those spaces might feel about that is being eroded into silence. What are our rights?

It's not about Trans anything, it's about opportunistic fuckwits who will exploit self ID.

In the past they have become doctors, priests, teachers, entertainers, sports coaches, movie directors, movie stars and charity workers willing to go to disaster zones.

This is a walk in the pissant park compared to any of those.

Oh, and I call reverse.

Nice work OP

All the posters who are sick of transgender threads.

Just a couple of things you might like to know.

Twitter are banning and censoring people - mainly women - for being gender critical and questioning the current trans narrative. The posts are none violent or extreme. However, men who abuse women on Twitter and use violent language, threats and pictures are allowed to continue.

Google - and other search engines - are manipulating search results so that if you search ‘violence against women’ for example - results will give info on trans people instead of born women. This occurred about two weeks ago. It’s back to normal now, but for how long?

Women are being censored and this should worry us all even those who are not gender critical.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

One last plug for a petition asking nicely for women to be allowed have a voice on changing a law that will affect them.

Bed timezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

google went really weird a couple of weeks ago. tried a different search engine instead.

I wonder if the reason more women aren't bothered is because its perceived as a feminist issue, not a women's one? This would explain the paradox of women asking why there are sooo many threads, saying its obsessive, feminist boards being taken over etc

Yes, I think there's truth in that. As a woman, I'll admit I've been on here ages but the feminist boards I've never taken an interest on until recently.
I've even been called an MRA and a handmaiden on here before for daring to side with any obvious blokes.
(Now been called a rad fem loon recently too! Go figure)
Women seem to whatever they do, always be told what they should be doing, what they should be thinking.
I know I always used to switch off - "boring"....
I like to read up on things, research, and look and see for myself what's going on if things crop up.
Not everyone does. If they did they might have a "oh,hang on,this affects us all" moment too.

I think anyone who has no issue with self id must have had a very different schools to me. There was definitely groups of lads i can think of who would have thought it a great laugh to self id if it meant they'd get a chance to see some naked w

Hit too soon. They'd have done it not just to see naked woman, but to continue the intimidation they were already doing in the pool at the local leisure centre into the changing rooms. At least we had somewhere to escape to. And just their prescence in there would have put us off, wouldnt have needed any behaviour that we could use to have them kicked out.

Its never too late. My grandparents were adults before women were allowed to vote on equal terms with men and I’m only in my forties. I do not accept new public policy or laws that divide people according to gender and ultimately make it harder to be gender non conforming.

I do not accept new public policy or laws that divide people according to gender and ultimately make it harder to be gender non conforming.

Very succinctly put.

I do wonder why so much focus is on whether the individual man is a threat or intimidating as though that's the only reasonable objection. Its not really about him. Its about the women in the room and whether a penis is welcome in there or not. And as we can't guarantee that all women are happy with penises in their sex segregated spaces then the status quo as it WAS before self id started to trickle in should be maintained. Transwomen are men.

Biologymatters "transwomen are men", is the crux of the issue. But you're not allowed to say it. I get that it's rude, and it hurts people's feelings, and in most situations (i.e, going about everyday life) I wouldn't say it. But that doesn't make it less true.
I am a fat, middle aged woman. If someone yelled that at me in the street it would be rude and hurtful, but no less true. And if I insisted all the toddlers shoved up on the bouncy castle and let me have a go, then I think it would be beyond reasonable for someone to point out that it wasn't reasonable. If I kept insisting that it wasn't fair and they hurt my feelings - well tough.

flowersonthepiano Of course you’re right. But the “transwomen are men” line is leading people to think the campaign is transphobic.

The underlying message is the same as always - Be Nice, Women, Don’t Make A Fuss - which is incredibly depressing. Men who speak up are campaigners, women who speak up are hysterical harridans.

But nevertheless we need to reach the people who think it’s unkind to trans people to talk about any if this and convince them it’s about women’s rights NOT transphobia.

Wish I knew how.

I'm curious about the situation of transmen, particularly those with a penis. I am not sure I'll get a consistent opinion, but would they be accepted by women in their spaces? would it depend on their extent of showing their bodies?

Due to men's (as a class) awful behaviour, trans of either sex are likely to feel intimidated in men's spaces if their trans status is known. That absolutely must change, but I don't hold out much hope. But for women, who, in my opinion, rightly object to men in their space there seems to be part objection to men because of men's inherent behavioural traits, and partly because they just don't want a penis in a female space - so where does that leave a transman?

It's a genuine question, as most often the chief concern seems to be around transwomen.

Yes the focus is mainly on not upsetting the men no thought for not upsetting a whole host of other people, those who have been assulted by a male, those whose religion means they would not be able to access services any more, children, teens going through puberty etc.

I am a man, at birth, biologically etc. I 'identify' as one.

Mumsnet may be 'obsessed' about this, but in my view it is with good reason. I do not want to see Ian Huntley in a woman's prison, nor do I want women to exercise less because of the fear of someone with a penis being in their changing room. The young women I know who go to Hampstead Ladies' Pond should be able to have an afternoon of swimming and sunbathing in what they feel is a peaceful environment, without men invading this space.

There's a (largely) positive move to be politically correct and embracing of diversity these days. That makes for a difficult climate if anybody tries to correlate an issue with a sex / race / religion etc.

Embracing transexuality is not the same as accepting a virtually fluid definition of a woman, and having a clear distinction between the female sex, and those who would like to live their life as a woman isn't transphobic.

If someone has a medical condition that prevents them from driving, they can still live a perfectly decent life within that constraint. A transman or transwoman should also be able to live a perfectly decent life within the constraint of their biological sex. Live as a woman, dress as a woman, act as a woman etc, but they can never overcome the constraint of their biology which categorically classes them as a male. Their medical condition is maleness.

If science can one day replace XY for XX, then it might be a different story, but until then...

nor do I want women to exercise less because of the fear of someone with a penis being in their changing room. The young women I know who go to Hampstead Ladies' Pond should be able to have an afternoon of swimming and sunbathing in what they feel is a peaceful environment, without men invading this space.

That's what precisely caused me to ask the question... what's the key objection, the maleness or the penis? you've used both, but where does that leave a transman who IS biologically a female but who may have a penis. Which space should they go to?