To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

New sticker idea to take out next time I’m in Canal St will for sure ask gay men why they don’t want to lick “man clit”. I’ll tell you what their answer could be 1.) they don’t want to 2.) it’s fucking homophobic as hell to even suggest it.

If men really want us to believe they think they are women, they are going to have to lose the penis. Now that's a commitment to the cause. Shame so many of them aren't that committed though.

I agree that there is a hardcore anti-trans culture on MN and it's odious. They argue gender is a purely social construct - fluid and bearing no relation whatsoever to biology. Then they explode into paranoia and bigotry at the prospect of a minuscule percentage of men who may potentially take this concept of "gender fluidity" to its extreme.

@g1tterati , with respect, you do seem to be confused about the position of feminists on this issue. Trans ideology is the one that says that gender bears no relation whatsoever to biology, and can be fluid. Also that a sense of 'gender identity' is innate, and determined by personality / interests. So a boy who likes fairies or a girl who likes cars might really be a girl with a penis and a boy with a vagina, respectively, because personality aka gender identity is what determines if you're a boy or a girl. To think that sex organs have anything to do with being male or female makes you a vagina fetishist, or penis- obsessed.

The feminist position is that it's our biological sex that makes us male or female, and all that other stuff - beliefs about what roles men or women should play in society, what toys kids should play depending on whether they're boys or girls, what interests and aptitudes men should have as opposed to those for women - those rules (aka gender) are culturally imposed, not innate, and the goal should be to break those barriers.

The reason this difference of opinion on what gender is, and whether it's biology or an internal feeling / personality traits that define womanhood, matters so much right now is that changes to the law have been proposed which would mean that 'women' would no longer mean, in law, that class of people who share female reproductive biology. It would mean 'anyone who says they're a woman.' Which means 'women-only' anything would cease to exist, because 'women' no longer has any meaningful definition. Sports, hospital wards, refuges, women's programmes in STEM and politics...

The idea that our sex determines our personality is pretty regressive and antifeminist, isn't it? Yet the idea that our personality determines our sex is somehow lauded as progressive, even though both declarations ultimately say the same thing: boys and men should be like this, girls and women should be like that. That sexist garbage is about to be enshrined in law.

So yes, the feminists are talking.

Scottish Parliament have sneaked it through.

Yes, and there's been panic on the streets.

Little Owen Jones (champion of the trans movement when it's telling women what to do and how to think) had a right hissy fit when asked if he would have sex with a transman with a vagina. Got all offended and accused the questioner of homophobia and "erasing gay men" - oh, the IRONY!

But you know, whether people choose to believe this or not, lesbian women are under much pressure to sleep with transwomen with intact penises. Because transwomen are women, right?

Onefoot I think it can just depend on things like the time of day you post. You either post in something eneral like Chat, which is so fast moving threads don't stay at the top for long, or something specific (which I can see you did) like lone parents, which doesn't get quite as much traffic.

Posters do care very much about the family courts. I remember a great thread about this inspiring person:

survivingsafeguarding.co.uk/2015/09/20/how-to-survive-court-part-one/

Apropos of the Scottish situation

A Labour counsellor (I think - if not it was a Momentum lefty dude-bro) on Twitter took great pleasure in telling women to give up their rights to sex segregated spaces, and allow males in. Chanted "transwomen are real women" at all and sundry.

However, when asked if he would have sex with transwomen (you know, real women) said, no they're not women "for relationship purposes".

You see the double standards we're up against. "Women - accept that transwomen are women! Me? Oh no, I won't be doing that any time soon".

Women are rightly fucked off here.

Scottish Parliament have sneaked it through.

Yes, and there's been panic on the streets.

Not sure I can think of any law that has been passed that has resulted in panic on the streets in the UK.

Doesn’t mean they’ve all been good ones.

Trans inclusionary in the tweets, trans exclusionary in the sheets.

Whoever coined that phrase is a genius!

Fantastic Ellen

Yes Ellen! But he's not called a transphobe and abused, is he?

Little Owen Jones wasn't called a transphobe.

Because - and here's the real bummer about this whole thing - both the above men were towing the line on curtailing women's rights.

This is a men's rights movement.

Self ID has nothing to do with changing rooms or loos. Anyone who wants can use a woman's loo. No one has ever had to show their passport or birth certificate to get into a loo. That been the case for my whole lie.

I agree that public toilets aren't monitored, however, you can't just walk into the opposite sex shower at the swimming pool and strip off (unless you are under 8 - see countless threads about parents caring for opposite sex children).

Happily many swimming pools realise this is a problem and have male, female and unisex/family changing areas. However, unfortunately many pools and gyms still have small changing areas designed for single sex use, and that isn't going to change soon. You can fit more people in if they change next to each other.

You could logically argue that all facilities should be unisex. You would have a lot of push back for various reasons, that others can explain better than me, but at least you could make a half way coherent argument.

However, at the moment many councils are implementing a policy that means that a 9 year old girl can be told that she has to change next to somebody with a male body, but she can't be accompanied into a changing room by her father. Why? because apparently the thing that unites women is their shared 'gender'. Nobody can explain what a gender is. It isn't like race, which is basically just how your genetics affect superficial things like skin pigmentation and facial features. It isn't like being gay, which is about being attracted to people of the same sex. It is some strange indefinable quality, that nobody will quite admit relates to outdated concepts of masculinity and femininity. It makes as much sense as believing in unicorns or the earth is 4000 years old.

Wouldn't it just be so much better if we found ways to help people who are gender non conforming that don't rely on believing 6 impossible things before breakfast?

What do you want then OP? Are you one of the #NoDebate crew who want to control what women talk about too? After all you're the one saying "obsessed" yet you're screenshotting a topic/thread you are in no way forced to read, and starting a conversation about it away from the Feminism board too. In one way or another there's a few of you around lately with the #NoDebate agenda. It's not going to work. So do your blood pressure a favour and hide the Feminism board.

Some sensible words about the cotton ceiling. From a trans woman!

YABU

I do wish people would stop trying to police what I can talk about - why shouldn't I discuss a subject that interests me?

to MNHQ for providing the space for us to do it, doubtless in the face of bitching and whining of the kind seen on this thread and much worse.

And oh yes AntiqueOlive, lets have a MIL board. I just skip the fucking tedious threads on this subject, but now we're all allowed to control what each other talks about, I vote that all the social inadequates who can't get on with their MILs fuck off over there ==>

Disagreeing with you is sick?
Really?

And yet here you are Djnoun, bumping another trans thread.

This is just sick

not as sick as you insisting lesbians are nasty transphobes for having a no penises rule.

I must say the amount of threads about trans issues does seem a bit excessive.

Djnoun healthy debate isnt sick. Its healthy.

I’m just off to call my DH a transphobe for not having dated transwomen.

Djnoun, maybe it would be more constructive if you could explain what gender is and why people need to be grouped according to gender.

In a week when the latest Gender Pay Gap publications have revealed some jaw dropping discrepancies there’s not even one thread in this on the first page of feminist chat

I think there may some loss of perspective going on

Considering gender pay gap analyses will be rendered utterly redundant with the implementation of self ID I disagree.

Over time self ID will just mean that companies can demonstrate that there isn't actually much of a gap at all because plenty of 'women' are doing fine and are paid well for their, likely, full time role (which they managed to get because they haven't had to suffer professionally due to pesky female biology and take maternity leave due to the fact it's impossible to squeeze a baby out of their blushing lady penis), and others are in the top roles with top pay (despite the fact that they got there through the old boys club and make socialisation before becoming their 'true female selves' in their 40s and 50s at the height of their career).

This just leaves women (that this sort of analysis was supposed to help in the first place) without a vital tool that could help actually achieve some semblance of equality.

I don't think there's a loss of perspective at all. But there is the potential loss of any means of capturing real data about how society treats people based on their sex which really quite scary. It's a massive leap backwards for women's rights.