To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

it's about someone who is trans asking others to consider them as a sexual partner without prejudice.

Eh? There are literally tons of men I dismiss out of hand as a potential partner for all sorts of reasons. Why is it prejudicial if I decide I don't want to date a transperson?

@MissBeehiving

You can't understand why someone wouldn't want extremely invasive life changing surgery that could destroy their sexual sensation?

AskBasil

You notice Riley Dennis doesn't tell heterosexual males that they're transphobes if they don't want to sleep with women with dicks.

^
Excellent point.

It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.

I don't want a penis in my anus or mouth. I'm not homophobic, I'm not transphobic.
Why is it different if a woman doesn't want one in her vagina either?

"It is actually a very scary and challenging experience finding a sexual partner if you are trans."

So what?

It's actually a very scary and challenging experience finding a sexual partner for lots of groups.

That doesn't mean that other groups, should be lectured about how they ought to consider you as a sexual partner.

People are allowed to have any boundaries they want, about who they will sleep with.

Even if other people consider their boundaries frivolous, or racist, or unreasonable, or phobic, their right to have them, should be absolutely sacrosanct. No one has the right to have a fuck or have someone else consider fucking them. No one.

Well you could do that about anything....
If I don't want read about fish, I don't visit the fish bit.
Don't want to read about feminism? There's an obvious solution. But don't complain when some bloke is swinging his bollocks about in a communal changing room and you get called bigoted for complaining.

Yeah, those fucking women talking about a big feminist issue of the moment in a specific feminist section of a female centric website.

How fucking dare they, huh? Down with that sort of thing!

You can't understand why someone wouldn't want extremely invasive life changing surgery that could destroy their sexual sensation?

What about beards?

But whatever. I guess I've just accepted now that MN is TERF space

So are you saying that those transwomen that have signed the petition and want to be represented and consulted on the issue of self id are trans exclusionary? As in excluding themselves?

Love the poem poetry

It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever

That's crazy. So a gay woman who doesn't want to date a transwoman (who has kept their penis) is transphobic? Give yourself a little shake there.

You can't understand why someone wouldn't want extremely invasive life changing surgery that could destroy their sexual sensation?

If you really want to live as a woman then surely number one on the list is losing the penis.

The buzzfeed article compares lesbians who don’t want to sleep with a trans woman to racists.

Which I’m staggered by.

You might as well tell a heterosexual man if they don’t want to sleep with a gay man then they’re homophobic.

What about beards?

What about Harnaam Kaur?

How fucking dare they, huh? Down with that sort of thing!

"Careful now!"

(sorry, Father Ted fan and was picturing the picket and placard sign )

What gives you the right OP to decide what should talk about?

This is a really bloody important issue. This is nothing like racial equality or gay equality. Black people and gay people managed to get equal rights without negating the rights of any other minority group. And if anything, the current raft of transwomen in the media right now have shown themselves to be pretty bloody homophobic.

The current debate is about the fact the government and the opposition essentially want to do away with the definition of what is a woman and will give anyone the right to identify as one.

Leaving aside the fact I think gender is mainly a social construct, self ID not only negatively affects women but it negatively affects genuine sufferers of gender dysphoria who have a right to live life as transwomen/transmen without prejudice. Self ID allows anyone to decide they identify with a different gender based on how they feel at that moment. Previously trans people had to live as the opposite gender for, I think, two years and have GRC.

I have no issue with men. I pretty much know only decent ones. But what about women who have been subject to rape or domestic abuse? Shouldn't they have the right to a safe haven without biological men? I'm fairly crap at sports so men competing against me is never going to be an issue. But it is an issue for plenty and it IS happening at all levels right now
Transwomen competing against women is unfair and unsafe. Jobs on all women shortlisted? Yup, biological men can have those too (Lily Madigan, Heather Peto. Both Labour "womens" officers. Neither of whom show any interest whatsoever in women's rights. Just their rights and transwomen)

It is actually a very scary and challenging experience finding a sexual partner if you are trans. Asking people to get to know you as a person before they reject you is not unreasonable

Are you for fucking real? If I'm a lesbian, interested in women, I'm unreasonable if I don't get to know a MAN with a PENIS before I decide I'm not interested?

And you wonder why women are talking about this shit? THIS IS WHY YOU FUCKING LOONS.

Sqooush that's the TRA position. Lesbians are transphobic if they're not interested in penises. Cos transwomen are women.

The fear of being on the ‘wrong side of history’ is what is causing these otherwise rational woman to put their hands over their ears and go ‘la la la’.
Of course a man wouldn’t make ‘an effort’ to get access to victims, that’s never happened before in history.
The thing is, you know it’s the ones going ‘la la la’ the loudest who have that gut feeling that something’s amiss, that’s why they’re so vocal and will not engage,they’re scared if they stop their noise the truth will hit them like a freight train.

It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person

No its not. People are entitled to boundaries about who they do and don't want to get jiggly with.

Again, tell me another movement where women people have been lectured at about who they do and don't want to shag.

Fuck that noise.

@Djnoun

Perhaps the retention of genital sexual sensation overrides all other considerations then?

You can't understand why someone wouldn't want extremely invasive life changing surgery that could destroy their sexual sensation?

That’s true. I’m sure the AGP crowd, won’t want to lose the sexual thrill of demanding to be recognised as women. My heart bleeds for them. BTY, I’m not saying all trans are perverts before you try to twist my words.

Well yes if someone wants to be a woman then they should destroy their penis regardless of the sexual sensation they get from it because women don’t have the sexual sensation which a penis gives them. So why would they want to keep it?

They can have a neo vagina constructed can’t they? I know and you know that they won’t get sexual sensation from it but that’s what being a trans person entails surely.

Thanks @CadyHeron and @HadronCollider :-) I thought about wading into the debate but there are more articulate and knowledgeable than myself on here doing a fantastic job of that already. It's a shame women aren't interested. I agree with the post earlier on - that self ID is the single most important issue of our time. Everything that comes under the banner of "feminism" will be impacted. We won't be able to give a shit about the Gender Pay Gap if this carries on because all the now-legally-female TIMs (thank you, Scotland) will have skewed the stats so it looks like we're all raking it in!

Why is it just women who get told they are transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a transgender person.

Does a hetero man get called transphobic for not wanting to suck ladydick?
Does a gay man get called transphobic for not wanting to lick man clit?

No. It's just women, getting told they are doing it wrong.